Is it East Sydney or East Auckland?

[eagles2win]

Yes I know that

 

[mozgrame]

Dave Taylor was around the 100kg mark at 14/15. I wonder what comp he would have played in by weight division. Local seniors?

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

It's a problem, I have some friends who love their footy and are really keen for their 8 and 9 year olds to play junior League.

However, the mother has been along for a look and seen these monsters running around who look like 12-13 years olds that her sons would be playing against and has said "no way".

So the kids are playing Junior Soccer, and god forbid might end up playing junior AFL as it's seen to be "less full of thugs" (her words not mine).

She tells me it's much worse when the kids are 12-13, they are then playing against absolute monsters (in size).

They will have to go to weight based divisions rather than age based otherwise a generation of kids will miss ever playing the game.

 

[The Who]

And it's not just the forwards. The centres are huge these days. They are relying on size and power more than speed and agility, which used to be the case. (I hope this won't be construed as being 'racist' as I've been branded in earlier posts).

 

[mozgrame]

Andrew John's spoke about this years ago, but only in respect to halves. The middle of the park in the NRL is mostly big man territory. It's a very physical game and the players must be able to absorb impact.
That doesn't mean there is no place for little men in league. What about the like of Ben Barba, Chris Sandow, Ox, Matt Bowen, Nathan Gardner, Jarrod Sammut, Preston Campbell and Matt Utai to name only a few.
I know we're talking about kids football, but the above players all came through the same system as the giant kids. It's all about mental and physical toughness. I've lost count of the number of big, rough players who rated Toovey as the toughest they ever played against. Brains vs Brawn i guess.

 

[The Who]

Barba, Bowen, Sammut and Campbell all moved from halfback to fullback, possibly the escape having to tackle the big fowards too often. It seems to me that, generally, halfbacks and five-eights are getting bigger. DCE is quite tall for a half. And Curtis Sirronen is a very large five-eight.

 

[mozgrame]

Barba, Bowen, Sammut and Campbell all moved from halfback to fullback, possibly the escape having to tackle the big fowards too often. It seems to me that, generally, halfbacks and five-eights are getting bigger. DCE is quite tall for a half. And Curtis Sirronen is a very large five-eight.

They may have moved, but they are/were all very important team members, and have won games with their own individual brilliance at times. A team loaded from wing to wing with large players will struggle against a team with a couple of speedy little men.
Halves are evolving just as props have. The squat, nuggety prop faded a little through the 90's as teams favoured tall, athletic props with an off load. Now it maybe swinging back a bit. That's the beauty of league.
The size of wingers these days, added to the speed they travel at, means there is nowhere to hide on the field if you don't want the heavy impact of tackling or being tackled.

 

[eagles2win]

And it's not just the forwards. The centres are huge these days. They are relying on size and power more than speed and agility, which used to be the case. (I hope this won't be construed as being 'racist' as I've been branded in earlier posts).

Some of the centers are used for pure size but there are those that have size and skill Clinton Toopi killed it with that mixture.
Watch Hurrell who also has that mixture.

 

[Canteen Worker]

I went and saw Northern Suburbs first grade colts Rugby play Penrith at the weekend. The Penrith side was 13 Pacific Islanders and the Norths side had none. Most of the Penrith side were from the Blacktown Rugby Club. They were much bigger, stronger and very physical but even on a muddy day, the superior speed of the more mobile Norths forwards and backs had them quickly on the back foot. Half time score was 41 nil.

A lot of the Penrith boys used to play League when young (on Sundays) and a few still do, but for the majority, their size is now an impediment to their game as they are not mobile enough. In the backs they tried to bash and barge, with little effect as good defence puts players on their backs, no matter how big.

All this proves nothing except that size in the end is not the be-all and end-all in sport. Watmough and Gifty are not huge men but would you rather have them or a bigger but less industrious player.

In the Juniors it is a different issue - as you want kids to be playing league. I have no issue with kids playing soccer whilst young, as long as there are opportunities and pathways for them to swap over in early high school.

 

[Top End Eagle]

It looks like we are starting to get an intelligent debate happening which is great but 'The Who' your initial post came across as xenophobic. Putting a quota on players of Polynesian or Melanesian decent can't be construed any other way particularly as most of these players are Australian or New Zealand citizens. Would the Warriors face the same quota?

Size of the junior players with these backgrounds is killing the game for younger players who cannot physically compete.

A lot of kids who don't develop as early will give the game up, and while those who stick in there will be benefited through having to use their smarts to compensate for a lack of size until their growth kicks in - and with supplement and weights programmes now it inevitably does if the juniors are willing enough to stick with the game - it's the players who leave disaffected with the game that will be lost as supporters or as those willing to put their kids into rugby league down the track.

The example of Dave Taylor earlier in the thread is a great example of why weight for age comps need to come in across the board. If Taylor had been playing against blokes his own size (and we are not talking about throwing him in with the local reserve grade team, we are talking weight for age so there would always be a couple of kids who appear enormous rather than a couple who appear as midgets as it currently stands) he would be a harder runner and possibly knuckle down like shane webke rather than putting on the chip kicks and the flick passes that his size afforded him when he didn't have any junior defences capable of stopping him - or more to the point challenging his desire (some of you will remember what Gordon Tallis said on NRL on Fox earlier this year about how big Dave didn't feel he had to roll the sleeves up and do the tough stuff - remembering Tallis was forwards coach at souths until recently).

I often think a lot of the biggest players that make it to NRL lack the drive and determination and the mental strenghth that those who have tackled them all their lives develop.

 

[mozgrame]

It looks like we are starting to get an intelligent debate happening which is great but 'The Who' your initial post came across as xenophobic. Putting a quota on players of Polynesian or Melanesian decent can't be construed any other way particularly as most of these players are Australian or New Zealand citizens. Would the Warriors face the same quota?

Size of the junior players with these backgrounds is killing the game for younger players who cannot physically compete.

A lot of kids who don't develop as early will give the game up, and while those who stick in there will be benefited through having to use their smarts to compensate for a lack of size until their growth kicks in - and with supplement and weights programmes now it inevitably does if the juniors are willing enough to stick with the game - it's the players who leave disaffected with the game that will be lost as supporters or as those willing to put their kids into rugby league down the track.

The example of Dave Taylor earlier in the thread is a great example of why weight for age comps need to come in across the board. If Taylor had been playing against blokes his own size (and we are not talking about throwing him in with the local reserve grade team, we are talking weight for age so there would always be a couple of kids who appear enormous rather than a couple who appear as midgets as it currently stands) he would be a harder runner and possibly knuckle down like shane webke rather than putting on the chip kicks and the flick passes that his size afforded him when he didn't have any junior defences capable of stopping him - or more to the point challenging his desire (some of you will remember what Gordon Tallis said on NRL on Fox earlier this year about how big Dave didn't feel he had to roll the sleeves up and do the tough stuff - remembering Tallis was forwards coach at souths until recently).

I often think a lot of the biggest players that make it to NRL lack the drive and determination and the mental strenghth that those who have tackled them all their lives develop.

There would definately not have been 17 kids of Dave's size to make a team at his age, let alone a competition of several teams. 100kg 14 year olds aren't the norm, not at Blackwater anyway. He would have to travel 100's of kilometers just to get a game.
The irony is that with a weight for age comp, we could lose big blokes from the game. By the time smaller players develop to a size where they feel they can compete fairly, say under 20's, the big blokes may not have been able to get a game since under 7's.