MERGED: Board Issues Mega Thread

[tookey]

RE: Owners ready to battle for Brookie

Didn't someone mention recently that perry has settled down the boardroom issues?

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

RE: Owners ready to battle for Brookie

A couple of things that I would like answered is:

1. Do the Football Club representative members on the board actually speak for what the Football Club members want or do the just speak for what they think that the Football Club members want?

2. Do they actually ask the members what they want?

I know that I haven't been a Football Club member for long enough to vote so maybe for me that is why it is very rare to get any feedback from them.

The last e-mail that I received from the club was from Bob Reilly back in September last year and speaking on behalf of the Directors of Manly-Warringah District Rugby League Football Club (Football Club) and Manly-Warringah Rugby League Club (League Club) because they were deeply concerned at reports that were circulating about Des Hasler's coaching position and wanted to let the members know where the board stands in support. Other than that e-mail, has anybody else received any correspondence from them?

Jethro they don't ask the members. At least, not for the last few years since I've been a member. I know Vidmar is very approachable and I have never known him to ignore any uestion asked. However that is not the same thing. Presumably the FC and Leagues Club nominees on the Sea Eagles board answer to their own boards,

Democracy in the FC is therefore limited in practice, however it remains the only avenue for fans to have a voice so it is important.

The points you raise are points I have raised repeatedly in the past, going back to the old mwse forum days, and they remain relevant and indicative of an alternate appraoch to the club's future.

Namely, actively involving the community in a joint private/community enterprise, for which there are a number of successful models in European footy clubs. This is counterposed to the other extreme, where some rich individual simply buys the club and runs it however they please.

Despite the continuous board shennanigans my view is that so far we have been reasonably lucky with our private owners. There are certainly some far more problematic owners than ours in Australian sport these days.

 

[Chip and Chase]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

Thanks for making the effort to reply MB. I did a quick google and found just a couple of articles where Penn claims to have put in $5mil. Is this different to the $2.6mil officially listed above ?? Is he including sponsorship in this $5mil I wonder ?

He (Scott Penn) estimated the Penn family has sunk about $5 million into the Sea Eagles to help transform them into one of the most competitive teams since they bought a majority share of the club in 2006.

"Back in '06 we posted a million-and-a-half loss and a million in '07. Even though we made the grand final in '07 we made a million-dollar loss," Penn said.

"Even making the grand final this year, we'll probably make a million-dollar loss.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/scott-penn-to-bail-out-sea-eagles-again-as-plans-are-prepared-for-50m-stadium/story-e6frg7mf-1226148468214

Forty-year-old Penn, a weight-loss and health food entrepreneur who is on the BRW Young Rich list with a $25 million fortune, has been one to put his money where his mouth is.

During the off season his holding in the club ticked over to slightly more than 50 per cent. Another 37.5 per cent is owned by the listed Quantum Energy (which bought its stake from former co-owner Max Delmege last year) and 12.5 per cent by the Manly district rugby league organisation.

Since officially buying into the Sea Eagles in 2006, Penn says he has put $5 million of his own money into the team and also bought the team’s licensed leagues club and building.

But despite winning two premierships in the past four seasons, Manly’s financial health is shaky. A lot of the money Penn has injected has been the result of annual shortfalls. Last year was no different, with the club making an operating loss of about $1 million.

http://afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/manly_nrl_club_chases_firmer_finances_wGqulZkDbebs2fyxt9499I

 

[Chip and Chase]

RE: Owners ready to battle for Brookie

Didn't someone mention recently that perry has settled down the boardroom issues?

That was the allegation. Seems unfounded based on current evidence.

 

[lovefooty]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

Thanks for making the effort to reply MB. I did a quick google and found just a couple of articles where Penn claims to have put in $5mil. Is this different to the $2.6mil officially listed above ?? Is he including sponsorship in this $5mil I wonder ?

He (Scott Penn) estimated the Penn family has sunk about $5 million into the Sea Eagles to help transform them into one of the most competitive teams since they bought a majority share of the club in 2006.

"Back in '06 we posted a million-and-a-half loss and a million in '07. Even though we made the grand final in '07 we made a million-dollar loss," Penn said.

"Even making the grand final this year, we'll probably make a million-dollar loss.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/scott-penn-to-bail-out-sea-eagles-again-as-plans-are-prepared-for-50m-stadium/story-e6frg7mf-1226148468214

Forty-year-old Penn, a weight-loss and health food entrepreneur who is on the BRW Young Rich list with a $25 million fortune, has been one to put his money where his mouth is.

During the off season his holding in the club ticked over to slightly more than 50 per cent. Another 37.5 per cent is owned by the listed Quantum Energy (which bought its stake from former co-owner Max Delmege last year) and 12.5 per cent by the Manly district rugby league organisation.

Since officially buying into the Sea Eagles in 2006, Penn says he has put $5 million of his own money into the team and also bought the team’s licensed leagues club and building.

But despite winning two premierships in the past four seasons, Manly’s financial health is shaky. A lot of the money Penn has injected has been the result of annual shortfalls. Last year was no different, with the club making an operating loss of about $1 million.

http://afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/manly_nrl_club_chases_firmer_finances_wGqulZkDbebs2fyxt9499I

I read on Saturday that Penn said he put in 20 mil ? I know that both Penn and quan have put in the money to cover the loss last year but since David Perry has come in that no money is required this year or the next. How good is that for the both of them.

 

[ManlyBacker]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

Thanks for making the effort to reply MB. I did a quick google and found just a couple of articles where Penn claims to have put in $5mil. Is this different to the $2.6mil officially listed above ?? Is he including sponsorship in this $5mil I wonder ?

I'm not sure C&C. My guess is that the $2.6M is probably the equity costs associated with purchasing shares and that would form part of the $5M. My understanding is that any FY shortfall is made up by the injecting of funds but from that would be the issue of new shares. I would have thought around $5M would be right (at the very minimum) and I am sure that includes his jersey sponsorship. If it was good enough for Max to include sponsorship whenever he raised his 'investment' amount in the Sea Eagles, then it is fair that Scott does as well.

BTW the MWDRLFC also has their 'investment' in MWSE written down to zero on their books.

I'm not taking any sides. I'm glad of the support of every group that has put money in to keep the club going.

 

[Berkeley_Eagle]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

Max Delmege Facebook posts
TRUTH...Penn says he has put $20 million into Manly ABSOLUTE BULL****..Penn has put in approx $3million in shares and loans and purchased the leagues club building for $7million and charges the leagues club exorbident RENT and is always threatening to put the club into administration for the slightest technicalitym I THAT THE MANLY SPIRIT....NO ITS A MONEY MAKING SPIRIT


https://www.facebook.com/groups/285567204864944/

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Quantum do have the finacial muscle to buy out Penn

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Quantam are in a great financial position and will continue to be in the future. Phil is a friend of mine and a great man, great supporter of Manly and what is best for the supporters and the club. Phil will bring great things for that club and a secured future you never believe what you read about people's finances it is always garbage. Financial review states great things about Quantam and their financiel future

 

[Ryan]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

What is the advantage of rotating the Chairman's role ?? It's not like he has the casting vote in the event of a hung board.

Is it just an ego thing, in that others on the board want to have a turn sitting in the big chair ?? Can't be that petty could it ??

The football club want independent chair. Penn also said yesterday he will take his money out if he doesn't get his own way . Very Tinkler type of attitude. That's why more owners not less is needed to stop the club being at risk from rich men's egos.

Chelsea, Man. City and soon Arsenal with Kroenke manage just fine. Also, funny to note they are presently in the upper echelon of clubs.

Penn solely owning this team would be the best thing for us. Penn, or URM, or Quantum (I have no allegiances to anyone, as long as the clubs long term viability is at heart).

 

[Berkeley_Eagle]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

i GOT involved with MANLY to save the club from demise so manlys supporters would be able to enjoy their MIGHTY SEA EAGLES as they have done for many years...I WOULD AND WILL NOT SELL MY SHARES TO ANYONE WHO DOESN"T HAVE MANLYS BEST INTEREST AT HEART

 

[Ryan]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

I've heard a few people on here say that Quantum don't have any funds to buy out the Penns like mentioned in the article on SMH article?? If so why is that Sydney guy( sorry can't remember his first name) saying they are ready to step in to buy the Penns shares.

Also about the URM guy people are talking about, has he said that he wants to buy into Manly or is it just people thinking that cause he's a sponsor whose loaded that he will want to put up his own cash to buy out the Penns or buy everyone out. Has he said he wants to buy into MWSE?

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Good idea Cam but who would appoint the Chairman? It would be 4 against 4 i imagine in voting. I still can't understand how you own the majority of a business but don't control the board through votes?

Has the Quantum group put anymore cash in to MWSE since buying the shares into it? Or is it just the Penn's? If so I think they deserve the voting power

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Mate, uneducated people talk about Quantum in that manner, like media people who generally did pretty poorly at math. Quantum paid down a huge amount of debt with cash. That has an adverse affect on net cash after operations, but in this market, and trust me, it ain't pretty, they did the smartest thing possible.

Improving a companies equity position is smart.

The companies quick ratio (current assets over current liabilities less stock) is still similar, and gross margin is trending down, but not dramatically.

Don't know who their financial controller is, but a few things could help them. Don't know what their trade terms are. Don't know what foreign currency risk they have etc etc etc, but why are they paying creditors so soon, and why are debtors slower in paying?

Focus and attention on these areas should be addressed if cash is being used in areas not normal.

Ok, that'll do, I won't rant..

 

[Jethro]

RE: Owners ready to battle for Brookie

A couple of things that I would like answered is:

1. Do the Football Club representative members on the board actually speak for what the Football Club members want or do the just speak for what they think that the Football Club members want?

2. Do they actually ask the members what they want?

I know that I haven't been a Football Club member for long enough to vote so maybe for me that is why it is very rare to get any feedback from them.

The last e-mail that I received from the club was from Bob Reilly back in September last year and speaking on behalf of the Directors of Manly-Warringah District Rugby League Football Club (Football Club) and Manly-Warringah Rugby League Club (League Club) because they were deeply concerned at reports that were circulating about Des Hasler's coaching position and wanted to let the members know where the board stands in support. Other than that e-mail, has anybody else received any correspondence from them?

Jethro they don't ask the members. At least, not for the last few years since I've been a member. I know Vidmar is very approachable and I have never known him to ignore any uestion asked. However that is not the same thing. Presumably the FC and Leagues Club nominees on the Sea Eagles board answer to their own boards,

Democracy in the FC is therefore limited in practice, however it remains the only avenue for fans to have a voice so it is important.

The points you raise are points I have raised repeatedly in the past, going back to the old mwse forum days, and they remain relevant and indicative of an alternate appraoch to the club's future.

Namely, actively involving the community in a joint private/community enterprise, for which there are a number of successful models in European footy clubs. This is counterposed to the other extreme, where some rich individual simply buys the club and runs it however they please.

Despite the continuous board shennanigans my view is that so far we have been reasonably lucky with our private owners. There are certainly some far more problematic owners than ours in Australian sport these days.

I really wish that they (the Football Club) would keep us more informed more often with what goes on. I fully understand that they should be able to go about the day to day running of the business (Football Club wise) by themselves however, when they come to the stage where they are butting heads with one or more of the co-owners over a decision or decisions, I think that they should take a step back, adjourn the meeting and inform the members of what's going on and let them decide which direction to take. To me, that would certainly ease some of the finger pointing and doom and gloom with the board.

 

[ManlyBacker]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

If they are smart Ryan then I don't know what a poor history would look like:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/companies/quantum-energy-teeters-as-losses-mount-to-525m/story-fn91v9q3-1226310725506

 

[Darren]

RE: Penn threatens to pull Manly funding

This is to much to bear!

 

[Chip and Chase]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

Good to see Max hasn't given up the fight, despite not having any financial interest. LOL. Also see spelling and grammar not a prerequisite for successful property development judging by those Facebook posts. Maybe one day the truth will come out about who paid what.

Like you said MB, I'm thankful for any party who has dipped into their pocket to keep the dream alive. Just wish they could all pull in the one direction, seeing as they all claim to have the best interests of the club at heart. They have a funny way of showing it.

 

[Cameron]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

Good to see Max hasn't given up the fight, despite not having any financial interest. LOL. Also see spelling and grammar not a prerequisite for successful property development judging by those Facebook posts. Maybe one day the truth will come out about who paid what.

Like you said MB, I'm thankful for any party who has dipped into their pocket to keep the dream alive. Just wish they could all pull in the one direction, seeing as they all claim to have the best interests of the club at heart. They have a funny way of showing it.

Incorrect buddy Max is still a minority shareholder of surfside the company that owns 37% of the club. Quatum are the major shareholder of surfside

 

[Ryan]

RE: Penn threatens to pull Manly funding

Go get help you bi polar merkin, you're mentally insufficient

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You can't beat it alone

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Example A
Two sentences - without expletives. LoL.

Mentally "deficient", not insufficient.

Too many cones has affected your literacy skills mate.

Lastly, bipolar is a serious disease. I'd hold the proverbial tongue in case you offend some people.

I hear the hooch makes people paranoid, and they often lash out. Just relax. Step AWAY from the cone. Your life will be better for it. I also hear people deny smoking the green as well, as I'm sure you will - which is a true sign of admittance.

Good ol Shane, the main vein gravy chain, off on a whacky adventure, to la la land.

 

[Volley]

RE: And on it goes....

No, no, no...that's your standard, your ilk if you will. You made your statement. Stand by it.

You need to stop talking about the sympton's. That's most peoples problem. This finger pointing, and media garb is nothing but destructive. Here's a novel thought Phantar.

Consider some SOLUTIONS.

I know that's difficult, but going down your route does nothing but hurt the club, fan base and team.

There should be a thread created about what solutions fans could suggest to fix things, rather than debate about who should be hung drawn and quartered.

The problem there, is there is siege mentality on these boards (these days). People would cut off their noses despite their face. People don't focus on solutions....I'm sorry - I don't get it.

Stopped reading after 2 lines, so much hatred so little life

You're the type of fish an average man with a rod could catch, its pretty pathetic when you're the laughing stock of the site and you keep biting again and again!

Souths have your club playing NSW cup so until the central coast gets accepted you can be a toothless bunny,I for I've wouldn't vote for anyone who wasn't pure

I'm the laughing stock? You can't scratch two coherent sentences together without involving expletives and/or putting your bong down.

This made me Lol.

Haha yeah I liked it too. Great line. Love your work Ryan.

 

[Ryan]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

If they are smart Ryan then I don't know what a poor history would look like:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/companies/quantum-energy-teeters-as-losses-mount-to-525m/story-fn91v9q3-1226310725506

Means nothing mate. Absolutely nothing. Taking one figure from a P&L and/or Balance Sheet, and you can make anything terrible. Profits can be whatever number they want it to be.

It's cash that runs a company. Net Cash after the Operations of the business.

Remember, profit is derived from both tangible, and intangible numbers (depreciation) etc.

I don't know the finer points of the business, but from what I viewed, cash is being driven into debt retirement, R&D and other things that long term makes a business viable.

I'm not their financial controller, but things aren't really that bleak from the trends I saw.

Also, that article reeks of hysteria. Manly are on the verge of collapse? Oh, really? The "struggling" Sea Eagles? How so? Hasn't Perry turned the P&L around? This aticle was only a few months ago.

 

[Chip and Chase]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

Good to see Max hasn't given up the fight, despite not having any financial interest. LOL. Also see spelling and grammar not a prerequisite for successful property development judging by those Facebook posts. Maybe one day the truth will come out about who paid what.

Like you said MB, I'm thankful for any party who has dipped into their pocket to keep the dream alive. Just wish they could all pull in the one direction, seeing as they all claim to have the best interests of the club at heart. They have a funny way of showing it.

Incorrect buddy Max is still a minority shareholder of surfside the company that owns 37% of the club. Quatum are the major shareholder of surfside

OK, I stand corrected then. I thought he sold out totally. In a way that's good, he deserves some sort of an ongoing role (however minor) for everything he put into the club.

 

[vidmar]

RE: BOARD ISSUES - Our Right to Know

We don't have to be a genius to work out the 4 to 3 votes against Penn.

Here's the Board as it now stands =

Scott Penn (Chairman and co-owner)
Kerry Chrysiliou (Penn Sport appointee)
Rick Penn (Penn Sport appointee)

Bob Reilly (Football club appointee)
Darrell Williams (Football club appointee)
Phil Sidney (Surfside appointee)
John Walstab (Surfside appointee)


1. The question is, what were the issues that brought about a vote of no confidence?

2. If there are continuing issues to be addressed and unresolved (and since it always ends up in the media anyway), should the rest of the football club members have a right to hear what the issues are and let the members vote on it?

3. Since I don't know what the issues are, I or we cannot determine who is right and who is wrong (in our opinions). Since we all have a vested interest in the club, I think it best that the issues are dished out since it continues to hurt us behind closed doors. We all have a right to know since this has gone waaaaaay past the confidential intent. We need to know so that we can make a sound opinion/decision.

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http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/peace-in-sea-eagles-boardroom-may-rest-on-independent-chair-20120609-202rm.html