Players for next year.

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Players that are definitely gone, or remain uncontracted beyond this year

Foran - gone
Walker - gone
Boyle
Davey
Fainu
Taufua
Taupau

So there is a bit of coin there to play with. Tualagi already signed. Happy to keep Davey out of that list

Key areas to strengthen. Top shelf prop has to be focus, be nice to have a creative hooker and a strike centre. I see Ryan Matterson is off contract, he has been playing in the middle for Parra and is a big enough body for prop and has a good offload. Worth targeting with Taupau's money IMO. Franklin Pele from Sharks is a young prop with some wraps. Jordan McLean from Cowboys ?? hasn't really kicked on up there. Was a fringe Origin player a couple of years back so might be worth a go. Not much around in the centres - Marsters or Tass from Bunnies ??
 
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Sharks pumped The Warriors with 11 men for 10 minutes, 12 men for 70 odd minutes. That's character and culture right there imo. Our fans on the flipper were happy with our brave effort when 40 was put on us.

Next year I lose the following players:

Out: Harper, Parker Taupau, Croker, DCE, Foran, Walker, (renege on Tuilagi if possible), Davey, Boyle, Taufua, Sykes, Roumanos, KDL, Fifita, Fulton from top 30.
Position change: Schuster (lock), Jake (Prop) - also re-signed on half money.
That sounds realistic.

The sharks also got pumped by a Raiders side that could barely win a game. I’ll wait to the business end of the season before making a call on how well that Sharks side are going.
 
On the Sharks, their recruitment last year was solid and the key to them pumping the warriors, Finucane and Hynes brought qualities from Melbourne, Fitzy the same with detail from the Roosters, theres no way they would of been capable of that sort of mind set and performance last year.

And, I‘m not touching the other half of your post.

Why? I start with the following as our base and build from there (possibly like the old days where Des added a major piece or two year to year i.e. Kennedy, Kite, Bell, Ox etc etc etc - we need a rebuild plan like that):

01. Tom Trbojevic
02. Jason Saab OR Christian Tuipulotu
03. Tolu Koula
04. NEW PLAYER
05. Reuben Garrick
06. Kaeo Weekes
07. Jamie Humphreys
08. Josh Aloiai
09. Manase Fainu
10. Taniela Paseka
11. Haumole Olakau'atu
12. NEW PLAYER
13. Josh Schuster (a VERY trimmed down Schuster)

14. Karl Lawton
15. Jake Trbojevic
16. NEW PLAYER
17. Ben Trbojevic

Depth: Tuipulotu, Tuitavake, Keppie, Sipley at this stage.

Time to rebuild. We NEED change in order to beat a top 4 team (well, top 8 team this season). The plan is to get three things:

1. Meaner
2. Leaner
3. Faster (MUCH faster) - and that leads to fitter.
 
Sharks pumped The Warriors with 11 men for 10 minutes, 12 men for 70 odd minutes. That's character and culture right there imo. Our fans on the flipper were happy with our brave effort when 40 was put on us.

Next year I lose the following players:

Out: Harper, Parker Taupau, Croker, DCE, Foran, Walker, (renege on Tuilagi if possible), Davey, Boyle, Taufua, Sykes, Roumanos, KDL, Fifita, Fulton from top 30.
Position change: Schuster (lock), Jake (Prop) - also re-signed on half money.
I agree with you that the Sharks showed great character, courage and resilience to over come the Warriors with 12 men for most of the game and for another 10 minute period down to 11 men keeping the Warriors scoreless . But that was the Warriors who have been very poor this year

The Sharks next home game they were blown away by the raiders 5 tries to two .
I just wonder What happened to the Sharks great culture there ?

The problem with most teams so far this seasons is playing well consistently and the Sharks have also shown to be one of them and they are only 2 wins in front of us .

I am not sure why you are focusing on losing players next year when those players still have an opportunity to challenge for the finals this year .

You talk about admiring great character club cultures but you your self as a supporter seem to be giving up this season when this season has not ended . That is not how great character club cultures are made
Great club cultures are made by never losing hope and never stop striving and believing when things are not going right

Thursday night our Manly boys are going to Melbourne ready for a fight !
Des and our boys have not given up on winning as giving up it is not part of our Great DNA club culture
I also hope you have the character not to give up on our teams chances feathered friend Ryan
 
I agree with you that the Sharks showed great character, courage and resilience to over come the Warriors with 12 men for most of the game and for another 10 minute period down to 11 men keeping the Warriors scoreless . But that was the Warriors who have been very poor this year

The Sharks next home game they were blown away by the raiders 5 tries to two .
I just wonder What happened to the Sharks great culture there ?

The problem with most teams so far this seasons is playing well consistently and the Sharks have also shown to be one of them and they are only 2 wins in front of us .

I am not sure why you are focusing on losing players next year when those players still have an opportunity to challenge for the finals this year .

You talk about admiring great character club cultures but you your self as a supporter seem to be giving up this season when this season has not ended . That is not how great character club cultures are made
Great club cultures are made by never losing hope and never stop striving and believing when things are not going right

Thursday night our Manly boys are going to Melbourne ready for a fight !
Des and the our boys have not given up on winning as giving up it is not part of our Great DNA club culture
I also hope you have the character not to give up on our teams chances feathered friend Ryan

We won't be winning this week mate, and I just hope we avoid the wooden spoon (that's my hope). Lost 5 of our last 6. I said right at the start, 14th placed finish was my expectation, and I hold to that. We are in the Dogs / Knights / Tigers / Titans / Warriors group now.

Seasons toast man. We are on ice.

Time to start blooding the rookies. Building towards a much better future. This weeks team selections goes absolutely against that mentality. Give Weekes, Tuipulotu, Koula, Tuitavake, GCKT and others some game time. Watch them excel.

We have WAY too many plodders right now
 
We won't be winning this week mate, and I just hope we avoid the wooden spoon (that's my hope). Lost 5 of our last 6. I said right at the start, 14th placed finish was my expectation, and I hold to that. We are in the Dogs / Knights / Tigers / Titans / Warriors group now.
Nothing is Guaranteed in life and neither is a Storm win
Everything is possible is life including a Manly win against the storm

Speaking about life ...
In life we have options
We either look for ways to win
Or focus how we can lose

Seek and you shall find...
Thursday night our boys are looking for ways to win
 
Nothing is Guaranteed in life and neither is a Storm win
Everything is possible is life including a Manly win against the storm

Speaking about life ...
In life we have options
We either look for ways to win
Or focus how we can lose

Seek and you shall find...
Thursday night our boys are looking for ways to win

Building towards the future, is most certainly looking at ways to win mate.

Look at The Panthers. Slowly but surely. It was the same in the early 2000's, when we did the same thing, bringing one marquee / quality guy in per year. That's why you bite the bullet, knuckle down, call a spade a spade, and embrace the rebuild - that means offloading the high priced ageing vets, and installing a newer, faster, younger system.

There WILL be tough times, but screw it, we'd be building. And be fun and exciting as all heck.

Remember how exciting it was hearing we were adding Kitey to our list? Ox? Bell? LYON !!!!!!!!

This procrastinating with the same crap, will get us nowhere. Give Humphreys a go. Now is the time. Gives Weekes a go.
 
I’d like to see a fit and durable Turbo and a strong athletic Tisschu. But probably dreaming
 
Nothing is Guaranteed in life and neither is a Storm win
Everything is possible is life including a Manly win against the storm

Speaking about life ...
In life we have options
We either look for ways to win
Or focus how we can lose

Seek and you shall find...
Thursday night our boys are looking for ways to win
Is that how Turbo found yet another injury? Or does seek and find only apply when you get a positive result?

Asking for a friend.
 
Next year I lose the following players:

Out: Harper, Parker Taupau, Croker, DCE, Foran, Walker, (renege on Tuilagi if possible), Davey, Boyle, Taufua, Sykes, Roumanos, KDL, Fifita, Fulton from top 30.
Position change: Schuster (lock), Jake (Prop) - also re-signed on half money.

I'll try to respond to this as seriously as possible...

Firstly you understand contracts? Harper, Parker Croker, DCE, Jake, Tuilagi and I believe Sykes and Fifita have them.

So if you want them OUT you need to find a buyer, and often to find a buyer you need to tip in money. So if we ditch all the above players we will likely be spending somewhere say between 600k to 1 million a season on players to play elsewhere. Money that would come out of out cap.

Less cap space means downgraded replacements......not reasonable behaviour IMO.

In regards to Jake, you say move to prop and re-sign on half the money. If you mean at the end of his contract which I think runs till 2025...or 2026 then sure but again, you cant just halve a players contract because you feel like it.

Secondly Sykes and Fifita are on development contracts not in the top 30, nor is Fulton, so you wanting them out of the top 30 is a flawed idea to begin. More pressing though is you want youth given a chance but want 3 young promising players cut because......why exactly?
 
I’d like some players whom spend time actually playing the game. Media appearances don’t count much.
 
I'll try to respond to this as seriously as possible...

Firstly you understand contracts? Harper, Parker Croker, DCE, Jake, Tuilagi and I believe Sykes and Fifita have them.

So if you want them OUT you need to find a buyer, and often to find a buyer you need to tip in money. So if we ditch all the above players we will likely be spending somewhere say between 600k to 1 million a season on players to play elsewhere. Money that would come out of out cap.

Less cap space means downgraded replacements......not reasonable behaviour IMO.

In regards to Jake, you say move to prop and re-sign on half the money. If you mean at the end of his contract which I think runs till 2025...or 2026 then sure but again, you cant just halve a players contract because you feel like it.

Secondly Sykes and Fifita are on development contracts not in the top 30, nor is Fulton, so you wanting them out of the top 30 is a flawed idea to begin. More pressing though is you want youth given a chance but want 3 young promising players cut because......why exactly?

Quality. An improvement in quality top to bottom. We can't keep doing what we are doing. Our depth is horrendous. Look at that Blacktown team. Unfortunately you're right about contracts. Normally, if you're not wanted, another team would pick you up. Out of our lot, Parker may get a run elsewhere, but most of the others are glued on through lack of options in my opinion, so we are likely stuck with them.

Secondly yes, when Jakes contract is up, he needs to be paid what he's worth. He's well overpaid for his value add. I'd say 400-450 is about right / fair. If Tom gets the ****s and wants to leave, so be it. We can get a few players that actually take the field.

Point taken about the development squad - I just looked at the official site, and they were there, so assumed top 30. But certainly not the potential of days past, huh.

We need to lose blacktown man, come ON. Since they joined us in 2017,
27 wins, in 93 games (win percentage of 29%). There is no development coming out of that team.

As seasons go:
2022: 2nd last
2021: 2nd last
2020: Last
2019: Last
2018: 4th last !!! Yaaaay
2017: 3rd last

Bring the Sea Eagles home. Lose the gang crap. We NEED change Disco - drastic change. Remember, in first grade from 2017

2022: 10th - likely to drop - Des
2021: 4th - Des
2020: 13th - Des
2019: 6th - Des
2018: 15th - Barrett
2017: 6th - Barrett

Do you see a trend there?
 
I'll try to respond to this as seriously as possible...

Firstly you understand contracts? Harper, Parker Croker, DCE, Jake, Tuilagi and I believe Sykes and Fifita have them.

So if you want them OUT you need to find a buyer, and often to find a buyer you need to tip in money. So if we ditch all the above players we will likely be spending somewhere say between 600k to 1 million a season on players to play elsewhere. Money that would come out of out cap.

Less cap space means downgraded replacements......not reasonable behaviour IMO.

In regards to Jake, you say move to prop and re-sign on half the money. If you mean at the end of his contract which I think runs till 2025...or 2026 then sure but again, you cant just halve a players contract because you feel like it.

Secondly Sykes and Fifita are on development contracts not in the top 30, nor is Fulton, so you wanting them out of the top 30 is a flawed idea to begin. More pressing though is you want youth given a chance but want 3 young promising players cut because......why exactly?
Fifita is certainly the type of forward we have been lacking. Big, strong and aggressive. Hopefully he kicks on!
 
Schuster at 5/8
Jake to prop
new recruit Kelma Tuilagi or Lawton at 2nd row
Ryan Sutton at lock

6. Schuster
7. DCE
8. Jake
9. Croker/Fainu
10. Aloiai
11. Olakau'atu
12. Lawton/Tuilagi
13. Ryan Sutton

14. Fainu/croker
15. Tuilagi/Lawton
16. Bullemor
17. Paseka

18. Sipley
19. Burbo
20. Keppie
21. KDL
Dogs have signed Ryan Sutton for next year.
 


Wonder if well be back in for Palisia?

Dont mind it.

For mine Id be looking at;

Mariner or Tass
Verrills with Berrell a cheap backup (pending Fainu)
Palasia


Good on him for backing himself I suppose.
Possibly takes guts to turn down 4 years @ $250k a year for a 1 year $200k contract when you've already had 5 surgeries.

I'd probably would have jumped at the 4 years, especially if I had a family.
 
Jayden Hunt a prop from Dragons,has the pace and athleticism of Brenton Lawrence but bigger and more aggressive and will whack in defence,good workrate.
Kayal Iro from Sharks,son of Kevin,big attacking centre coming into his own this year and ready to break into NRL.
No one else worth spending money on that would make a difference....
 
Quality. An improvement in quality top to bottom. We can't keep doing what we are doing. Our depth is horrendous. Look at that Blacktown team. Unfortunately you're right about contracts. Normally, if you're not wanted, another team would pick you up. Out of our lot, Parker may get a run elsewhere, but most of the others are glued on through lack of options in my opinion, so we are likely stuck with them.

Secondly yes, when Jakes contract is up, he needs to be paid what he's worth. He's well overpaid for his value add. I'd say 400-450 is about right / fair. If Tom gets the ****s and wants to leave, so be it. We can get a few players that actually take the field.

Point taken about the development squad - I just looked at the official site, and they were there, so assumed top 30. But certainly not the potential of days past, huh.

We need to lose blacktown man, come ON. Since they joined us in 2017,
27 wins, in 93 games (win percentage of 29%). There is no development coming out of that team.

As seasons go:
2022: 2nd last
2021: 2nd last
2020: Last
2019: Last
2018: 4th last !!! Yaaaay
2017: 3rd last

Bring the Sea Eagles home. Lose the gang crap. We NEED change Disco - drastic change. Remember, in first grade from 2017

2022: 10th - likely to drop - Des
2021: 4th - Des
2020: 13th - Des
2019: 6th - Des
2018: 15th - Barrett
2017: 6th - Barrett

Do you see a trend there?

I think there are changes to be made and areas to improve for sure but I dont agree with drastic change. We need some tweaks.

Overall despite a few recent loses I think the club is overall in a fairly healthy state (ha that comment will be like a red rag to a bull) so I wouldnt be throwing out the baby with the bath water so to speak.

On a few of your points made over a number of threads;

COACHING
I've had concerns about Des and his ability to adapt since his late Bulldogs days. That said he has proven to me that he is still a quality coach albiet with some limitations so I agree, a younger, stronger voice as an assistant may help.
I say may as, from the outside we really dont see what Monaghan, Randall etc bring.

ROSTER
This is were I think we will disagree the most. Overall I think our roster is strong, its just about getting them playing as a cohesive unit. The tools are there...for the most part, we just need to use them effectively.
For mine hooker is our biggest issue, Croker is solid and a great defender but we need more in this area. Fainu is the silver bullet but his court case, shoulder and time out of the game make him a hail mary. Failing that I'd look at Verrils maybe though his injury history is like Toms. Palasia and Mariner from the Broncos would give us some more young talent in the centres and at prop.
I'd love a Grant, Cook, Welch etc but they aren't available or feasible atm.
I so think we should be scouring Matthews, Ball and Flegg for the best young hooker around.

SPEED
We certainly meed to increase our line and ruck speed. But our team is not some slow plodding squad. We were the excitement team last year, flashy and fast. Schuster for example doesnt need to be rapid if he can create breaks for Turbo, Koula, Saab, Garrick etc.
Also not all teams need to be clones, Parra have a very effective park with Paulo, RCG, Brown and Lane...those guys are hardly rapid.

BLACKTOWN
Hmm tough one.
Generally speaking I want Manly reserve grade back, that said I dont want our production line of young western Sydney talent to stop. Most of the young guns and possible future of the club have come that way. However is that even to do with Blacktown or just good scouting....not sure but I thibk the later.
So ditch Blacktown.
That said.....reserve results mean little, particularly with 21 man squads and players not dropping down to play, plus injuries etc.
Bulldogs are going great in Reserves but its not helping their firsts.


Anyway there are my random musings
 
Y
Jayden Hunt a prop from Dragons,has the pace and athleticism of Brenton Lawrence but bigger and more aggressive and will whack in defence,good workrate.
Kayal Iro from Sharks,son of Kevin,big attacking centre coming into his own this year and ready to break into NRL.
No one else worth spending money on that would make a difference....
Yes, never heard of him but lets get an Iro back in the squad
 
Spine.

Croker fits well, if the halves take control, but if thats not going to happen then a hooker that adds uncertainty around the ruck. Fainu is possibly this player , but its a big ask after so long away and so many shoulder issues. With foran going its likely a rookie playing 6

We desperately need game management , patience and control. We need the plan, and players to implement it every week.

Humpries looks a possability but where does he fit into the puzzle , and when . Is it possible he is ready next season, is it a massive ask for him to step into that role, and where does that leave schuster


If not there is no way we can afford to purchase that skill off the shelf and game ready

Until we decide on the game we will play , its harder to pinpoint the players we need although we do need some go forward. Paseka out and marty down on form has made us look average overall , although last week against parra we were not too shabby
 

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