Players for next year.

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I think there are changes to be made and areas to improve for sure but I dont agree with drastic change. We need some tweaks.

Overall despite a few recent loses I think the club is overall in a fairly healthy state (ha that comment will be like a red rag to a bull) so I wouldnt be throwing out the baby with the bath water so to speak.

On a few of your points made over a number of threads;

COACHING
I've had concerns about Des and his ability to adapt since his late Bulldogs days. That said he has proven to me that he is still a quality coach albiet with some limitations so I agree, a younger, stronger voice as an assistant may help.
I say may as, from the outside we really dont see what Monaghan, Randall etc bring.

ROSTER
This is were I think we will disagree the most. Overall I think our roster is strong, its just about getting them playing as a cohesive unit. The tools are there...for the most part, we just need to use them effectively.
For mine hooker is our biggest issue, Croker is solid and a great defender but we need more in this area. Fainu is the silver bullet but his court case, shoulder and time out of the game make him a hail mary. Failing that I'd look at Verrils maybe though his injury history is like Toms. Palasia and Mariner from the Broncos would give us some more young talent in the centres and at prop.
I'd love a Grant, Cook, Welch etc but they aren't available or feasible atm.
I so think we should be scouring Matthews, Ball and Flegg for the best young hooker around.

SPEED
We certainly meed to increase our line and ruck speed. But our team is not some slow plodding squad. We were the excitement team last year, flashy and fast. Schuster for example doesnt need to be rapid if he can create breaks for Turbo, Koula, Saab, Garrick etc.
Also not all teams need to be clones, Parra have a very effective park with Paulo, RCG, Brown and Lane...those guys are hardly rapid.

BLACKTOWN
Hmm tough one.
Generally speaking I want Manly reserve grade back, that said I dont want our production line of young western Sydney talent to stop. Most of the young guns and possible future of the club have come that way. However is that even to do with Blacktown or just good scouting....not sure but I thibk the later.
So ditch Blacktown.
That said.....reserve results mean little, particularly with 21 man squads and players not dropping down to play, plus injuries etc.
Bulldogs are going great in Reserves but its not helping their firsts.


Anyway there are my random musings
Great post mate - we agree on most things, aren't too far apart on others, and disagree on very little. As you said, (and I agree Croker has done a marvelous fill in job) dummy half is where a lot of our play starts and finishes. We really need an upgrade.

I did list a squad that had only 2-3 players missing, and had our already contracted players named - so we'd only be looking for 2-3 (Hooker, Centre, forward). The rest you go for depth, but you improve the quality spread given the blokes I've let go have huge cap hits. Particularly an up-and-coming fullback depth. I believe Weekes is a five eight by the way. Look at that guy for The Sharks last week ! wowzers. The fill in fullback at The Dragons. Goes on - our replacement? A shift of a player from another position.

And there in lies our prob, too. Too many players playing out of position. Why? Lack of depth.
Garrick - winger playing fullback
Walker - centre playing forward (look how injured he always is)
Schuster - 5/8 playing backrow (not even lock)
Croker - half playing hooker
B Trbojevic - backrower playing centre
Lawton - Hooker playing backrow

THEN you have guys like Jake playing lock, who should be prop
Guys like Bullemor not being used where he excels

No wonder we look disorganised in defense and always chasing our tails (giving away penalties).

I'm honestly not sure what Des is trying to achieve with his positional play, team selections, structures and strategies - because they aren't working. If the players are as lost and confused as me, then no wonder we are a .400 team this season, and players are getting injured.

Anyways, sorry for the long posts mate.
 
Why? I start with the following as our base and build from there (possibly like the old days where Des added a major piece or two year to year i.e. Kennedy, Kite, Bell, Ox etc etc etc - we need a rebuild plan like that):

01. Tom Trbojevic
02. Jason Saab OR Christian Tuipulotu
03. Tolu Koula
04. NEW PLAYER
05. Reuben Garrick
06. Kaeo Weekes
07. Jamie Humphreys
08. Josh Aloiai
09. Manase Fainu
10. Taniela Paseka
11. Haumole Olakau'atu
12. NEW PLAYER
13. Josh Schuster (a VERY trimmed down Schuster)

14. Karl Lawton
15. Jake Trbojevic
16. NEW PLAYER
17. Ben Trbojevic

Depth: Tuipulotu, Tuitavake, Keppie, Sipley at this stage.

Time to rebuild. We NEED change in order to beat a top 4 team (well, top 8 team this season). The plan is to get three things:

1. Meaner
2. Leaner
3. Faster (MUCH faster) - and that leads to fitter.
I was mainly referring to all the players you want gone.
I agree we need change, I also agree with your last 3 points.
I think Des was working on the theory he had the cattle to win a premiership based on last year and locked the majority of the squad in for this year and next, for what was looking like a genuine premiership window, (how quickly things can change) given that our roster looks pretty tight for next year, I don’t see a great deal happening on the recruitment side, our opportunity to rebuild comes end of next year with some space in 24.
Pending what happens over the next few weeks, I don’t think it’s time to panic yet, in saying that if we loose a couple more on the trot, then we could use this year as an opportunity to bring a couple of our youngsters into grade and hopefully we do move a couple on this year and pick up a couple to help next year. I‘m hoping the side turns up tonight and proves a few a things, the seasons not over yet.
 
I dont know how we improve by dropping the Qld half & captain ,and running with two unproven rookies in the halves.
Paseka nowhere close to starting over Jake .
Lets give it a run.

Turbo
Saab/Tuipulotu
Koula
Christian Chrichton
Garrick
Schuster/Madden/Martin
Dce
Jake
Fainu/Verrills
Aloiao
Haumole
Tuilagi (guy was a beast start of year ,new team mates/club/coach,he could be anything )
Nikora/Murchie/Matterson/Taukeiaho/Schuster (all off contract)
 
Is that how Turbo found yet another injury? Or does seek and find only apply when you get a positive result?

Asking for a friend.
This is how Turbo will find a away to come back from his injuries and return doing what he does best !
 
I dont know how we improve by dropping the Qld half & captain ,and running with two unproven rookies in the halves.
Paseka nowhere close to starting over Jake .
Lets give it a run.

Turbo
Saab/Tuipulotu
Koula
Christian Chrichton
Garrick
Schuster/Madden/Martin
Dce
Jake
Fainu/Verrills
Aloiao
Haumole
Tuilagi (guy was a beast start of year ,new team mates/club/coach,he could be anything )
Nikora/Murchie/Matterson/Taukeiaho/Schuster (all off contract)

It's not about win now. It's about building to the future, and building something that is sustainable & progressively growing. With DCE, we aren't slowly building. We are too hot and cold, and terribly inconsistent.

Mate, we can't beat a top 4 team. Haven't done so in 2.5 years. We can't beat a top 8 team this season - let him go to the Dolphins. What's the worst that can happen to a .400 team?

I've said it earlier, Panthers lost Moylan, Lewis, W. Graham and others to re-tool their squad. Why do you want to hang onto a now 33 year old player so much? 34 next season? You realize what his 1.2 million salary could do for us? Here's something - it isn't "winning" this year. He NEEDS Tommy to get results.
 
It's not about win now. It's about building to the future, and building something that is sustainable & progressively growing. With DCE, we aren't slowly building. We are too hot and cold, and terribly inconsistent.

Mate, we can't beat a top 4 team. Haven't done so in 2.5 years. We can't beat a top 8 team this season - let him go to the Dolphins. What's the worst that can happen to a .400 team?

I've said it earlier, Panthers lost Moylan, Lewis, W. Graham and others to re-tool their squad. Why do you want to hang onto a now 33 year old player so much? 34 next season? You realize what his 1.2 million salary could do for us? Here's something - it isn't "winning" this year. He NEEDS Tommy to get results.
We won’t win any future premierships with dce or des plain and simple..our hopes are around 2025-26
 
It's not about win now. It's about building to the future, and building something that is sustainable & progressively growing. With DCE, we aren't slowly building. We are too hot and cold, and terribly inconsistent.

Mate, we can't beat a top 4 team. Haven't done so in 2.5 years. We can't beat a top 8 team this season - let him go to the Dolphins. What's the worst that can happen to a .400 team?

I've said it earlier, Panthers lost Moylan, Lewis, W. Graham and others to re-tool their squad. Why do you want to hang onto a now 33 year old player so much? 34 next season? You realize what his 1.2 million salary could do for us? Here's something - it isn't "winning" this year. He NEEDS Tommy to get results.
Got results earlier in year without Turbo.
.400 can become .700 on the back of a streak.You saw that last year after the initial bad start.
That team you listed wouldn't win a game in 2 years .Imagine the whining then when team is .000.
You need some quality around the rookies and dont want to bring them through two years with the worst losing streak in club history.That is not good development.
 
Got results earlier in year without Turbo.
.400 can become .700 on the back of a streak.You saw that last year after the initial bad start.
That team you listed wouldn't win a game in 2 years .Imagine the whining then when team is .000.
You need some quality around the rookies and dont want to bring them through two years with the worst losing streak in club history.That is not good development.

And you.dont think there would be miles of cap to spend without those players ? To acquire quality players?
 
Re the need for a BK style player

If Jorge gets through tonight (optimistic I appreciate) i would keep him around on a min contract for another year.
He clearly is loved by the group and respected
 
Re the need for a BK style player

If Jorge gets through tonight (optimistic I appreciate) i would keep him around on a min contract for another year.
He clearly is loved by the group and respected
Indeed !!
 
Also for those advocating for mass change understand that this will not bring short term success.

If the argument is that we need a clean out to ensure further success then i can get the need for a big clean out however if there is a thought that would push us over the edge and make us win then this podcast is worth a listen


Essentially the key factor for the top teams is stablilty. The argument is now do you think we are almost there bar a couple of players or do we need a clean out?


I can not comment on coaching but from a roster point of view I feel we are only slightly off the pace with two key areas needed

1. Hooker
2. Front row experience

Half depth is somewhat covered with the kids coming through
 
Yep moves around the edges seem the only play the club has left.

If we couldn't offer Foran 350/400k then it shows you what's left in the kitty.

Sharks pumped The Warriors with 11 men for 10 minutes, 12 men for 70 odd minutes. That's character and culture right there imo. Our fans on the flipper were happy with our brave effort when 40 was put on us.

Next year I lose the following players:

Out: Harper, Parker Taupau, Croker, DCE, Foran, Walker, (renege on Tuilagi if possible), Davey, Boyle, Taufua, Sykes, Roumanos, KDL, Fifita, Fulton from top 30.
Position change: Schuster (lock), Jake (Prop) - also re-signed on half money.
The Sharks beat the Warriors with only 12 men because it WAS the Warriors
 
And you.dont think there would be miles of cap to spend without those players ? To acquire quality players?
We are already struggling ,Playing with the two rookie halves you mentioned would not end well.
 
Indeed !!
Unfortunately He has had his day, he was good and a crowd favourite but after the achillies injury and time off the game has passed him by, he score a try really by catching and falling over he conceded two by not being able to jump and munsters strip that every current player should be warey of, he can take a ball up and the occasional cracking tackle but his errors out weigh his good, they will put a decent winger that can jump on him each week and bomb that corner all night,
Loved him in his glory days but time catches up with all of us….
 
Unfortunately He has had his day, he was good and a crowd favourite but after the achillies injury and time off the game has passed him by, he score a try really by catching and falling over he conceded two by not being able to jump and munsters strip that every current player should be warey of, he can take a ball up and the occasional cracking tackle but his errors out weigh his good, they will put a decent winger that can jump on him each week and bomb that corner all night,
Loved him in his glory days but time catches up with all of us….
Indeed !!!
 
Next year's team I'd like to see

Edwards - assuming Tom does a heartlidge in Rd1.
To'o
Crichton
Tago
May
Luai
Cleary
Yeo
Martin
Olakau'atu
Fisher Harris
Fainu
Leota

Sorensen
Leniu
Jake T
Aloiai

Coach Bellamy/Cleary/Robinson/Fitzgibbon/Bennett or Payten.
 
Next year's team I'd like to see

Edwards - assuming Tom does a heartlidge in Rd1.
To'o
Crichton
Tago
May
Luai
Cleary
Yeo
Martin
Olakau'atu
Fisher Harris
Fainu
Leota

Sorensen
Leniu
Jake T
Aloiai

Coach Bellamy/Cleary/Robinson/Fitzgibbon/Bennett or Payten.

It's an interesting post. If we are being legitimate, I'd say Turbo and Olakau'atu would be the only players that could break into that side (Penrith).

And that says everything.
 
It's an interesting post. If we are being legitimate, I'd say Turbo and Olakau'atu would be the only players that could break into that side (Penrith).

And that says everything.
Currently I'd have Turbo starting at fullback.

Jake, Haumole and Schuster on the Bench
 
Currently I'd have Turbo starting at fullback.

Jake, Haumole and Schuster on the Bench
From a Panthers full strength? Fair enough mate. But how about like for like.

i.e. does Jake take the 13 spot, Schuster the 6, Haumole the 11?

I agree with Turbo at 1 tho.
 
Team P W L PD Pts
7 6 1 99 14
8 6 2 66 14
7 6 1 54 14
9 5 3 37 11
9 5 4 95 10
7 4 3 49 10
9 5 4 42 10
9 5 4 -14 10
7 3 4 17 8
8 4 4 -14 8
8 3 5 -55 8
8 4 4 -60 8
8 3 4 17 7
8 3 5 -25 6
7 2 5 -55 6
7 1 6 -87 4
8 1 7 -166 4
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