Questions to those who attended Bluetongue

[Duff]

I read all this "people want a seat" stuff on here, but who are these people?
The people i talk to and hang around with, be they members or casuals that go to 1 or 2 games (or less) per year all love the hill. Even supporters of other clubs love coming to Brookie for its atmosphere and vibe.
Why do you think Leichhardt is packed on the occasions they play there?

It's just not true that modern stadiums suit anyone but the corporates. They can spend what they like on double-decker corporate boxes or whatever to bring in those dollars but if we want the locals to keep attending and if we want away fans to be enticed by having a chance to watch football in the proper manner, we have to keep it as it is, on the eastern side at least.

 

[Darren]

Unfortunately we are the only team in Australia (AFL,NRL and A League) stuck in the 20th century timewarp and can't move into the 21st century with ground and facilities. It's like a slow painful death as fans and stakeholders argue/redesign/talk to officials about what we need to do.
The AFL stepped in and made the decision for their inner city clubs and they have gone from strength to strength.
Lots on here bag out Homebush but they just got 50k for a club game. 50k would take Manly 4 home games. Top class stadiums will bring new fans and families in which we can't do. Yet, when we play these top Sydney teams at home our crowds remain nearly the same. The club is too far away from metro Sydney and we struggle to get away crowds. Fans think our ground is a dump and rather stay away. We don't get 15-20k of locals like the Knights so we are stuck in a hard place. Locals don't come in droves and most away fans couldn't be bothered watching at a dump of our ground.

We have argued about this for so many years. We have had the most dynamic winning club the past 5 years playing entertaining footy, Stewart, Menzies, BK, Wolfie etc but the fans don't come.

As I have mentioned, I have a family of 4 but would never think of taking them to Brookie. As they get older, taking them to facilities where they get a decent seat, a screen to watch, toilets, food etc is the only way for me to guarantee a top day.

Sitting in mud and down the far end of the ground is too big a problem for me and noting the socio-economic standards of the Northern Beaches, there are probably loads of families like me that wouldn't take their family there.

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Duff, do you reckon the locals and away fans are attending??? The locals to me are so Wollongong (ISH) like we had with the Steelers. 99% of them couldn't care less!!
I reag that 1.2 million people live in the Sydney North but I doubt even 10k of locals go. When we get a crowd of 13k there is always 2-3k (minimum) of away fans and loads travel from west (I know Penrith/West * lots) Campbelltown, 5 come from Mudgee, 3 from the Gong, 5 I know from Central Coast and I could go on and on.
I will go on record in saying Manly would have the worst "local" fans in the NRL. How this winning team don't get a measly 12k in LOCALS is beyond me. If we got that plus 3k of opposition and 4k of travelling fans there is a full house and that never happens.

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I remember Beaver saying on the tele when we won the GF and was organsing the parade he was hoping fans would come and cheer!! Probably sums up the locals and their lack of support. Yes, I lived through the Steelers going through this apathy of support.

 

[Duff]

Yes Darren, i do think locals go. When we whinge that only 10k showed up that is because it was probably on a rainy Monday (or whatever) and it was only the locals (and the awesome nutters) that could be there.

You not taking your family is a disgrace.

People are different. Maybe some agree with me and some agree with you. For every one we'd gain with a new stadium, there is one we'd lose.
As I said, in my experience, in the social network I live in, people of all levels of support and all clubs love the old style ground. I've got a Roosters mate at work who always tells me how jealous he is of Brookie after they play there. Dogs "mates" who are the same way, every time they come back they feel that they are missing a part of themselves without Belmore.
This is my experience. We must learn from others mistakes. We would not survive it. If you want to piss off the locals, you'll find out pretty quicly what percentage of the crowd they are. They may not be the high profile supporters or the members but they are the majority at every game. They may only go to 2 or 3 games each per year so that is how they hide their numbers. But they are there.

 

[Darren]

The disgrace is the ground we have to play at in the 21st century (not 1950's)

We won't agree on whether locals go as I still don't get average crowds of 13-14 could contain even 10k of "locals". I think in such a huge area with no opposition NRL team, no Union or Soccer competition we aren't drawing crowds. We are also on a huge winning streak which always brings in new fans yet our numbers stay the same.
I suppose if you were starting a new NRL team Manly wouldn't even get any consideration compared to other areas. The Beaver (local) comment AFTER winning a grand final 40 nil summed it up for me.

I have gone personally since 14 (when I was allowed by myself) Train to Central from Gong, ferry across and bus. 7 hours of travel per game to all games as a teenager. Been to hundreds of games (home and away)

Now married with 2 small girls, facilities do make a difference. I won't sit up the far end on grass and see literally nothing whilst driving 2 hours with kids each way. The language on the hill cuts me out from sitting on the side and Jane Try stand ticket for the 3 of us would be over $100 without everything else. The cost is another factor but whilst the facilities didn't worry me as a single they do now. SFS offers a seat on the side, great screen and facilities so that will be places I will go. (unfortunately)

The big gap between Holden and NRL also makes it a long day. Entertainment of watching the guys stretch isn't going to captivate 6 year old girls. We enjoy watching them warm up but not a highlight for young children. Entertaining two girls for 50 minutes between kick off isn't ideal.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Darren, you always say how a new stadium would attract the crowds etc, but there is 1 question you never really address properly.

You love the SFS ? Great footy stadium. If that equals big crowds, please explain the Roosters averages to me

 

[lsz]

Darren makes a fair point about taking kids to a game on the hill - not the best until they are older (which makes the whole thing more expensive )

 

[Darren]

I agree but Roosters have never drawn big crowds and little identity. Basically, we aren't much different to them and Sharks. Small areas with rich people who don't care much about League. For us to actually break even we need game day guarantees of $$$ to keep us afloat. Leagues club gives us nothing.
If we could get this dollar guarantee from SFS for our home games then we will be able to see them nearly every week (unlike our "home" games of Perth, BlueTongue and Suncorp) Even though Dogs and Souffs have huge fan bases they went to Homebush for the dollars guarantee. Us, with small fan base need to do something to stay financially viable.

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KE, that SFS night of 33k in the semi was an amazing night. Then we got our backs up and cried we won't travel and got 13k at recent semi (can't remember dates) 13k at SFS wouldn't have been much different to Brookie.

 

[Duff]

Well your SFS tickets on halfway would cost more that JT tickets. So comparitively you can't bring cost into it. Some people can't afford it all, i appreciate that but if you can afford SFS, you can afford Brookvale.
Kids have been going to Brookie for 60 years. Why now do they demand a seat and a big screen and entertainment and whatever else? I've been going since before i could even comprehend what was going on and it never dawned on me to be anything but excited to be where i was. I think it's a parent issue, not a kid issue.

Yes, you're right about if a new team was being started, Manly wouldn't get a look in. But we do have a club, whose limitations must be accepted and worked within. We also have strengths to exploit. Amongst those are localisation and history. They are our biggest strengths, they are the only things that can keep us alive. We are not a homeless, soulless McFranchise like the dogs or tigers.

Even if a crowd of 13k contains only 7 or 8k of locals, that's more than half. Other than the die hards, none would travel to the SFS. So we're at 6k now. You might add 1 or so of away fans who'll find it easier to get to and 1 or so of people like yourself. It's still a massive drop in numbers all for basically no reason than to piss me off and give poor old Darren his beloved plastic seat. Why can't you understand that some people demand standing room at the football. Brookie offers people a choice of seats, benches, sit on hill, stand on hill, stand on terrace. That sounds quite fair to me. Your type of place treats everyone like sheep. You must sit in your stupid seat that is too small and that is it. You just want to force people into doing what you want.

 

[Jerry1]

Bluetongue ****s all brookie in facilities.
I love brookie - great place to watch footie sitting on the hill on a sunny afternoon. Not so good when its pissing down.

I suppose the GA areas are a big factor. not many places you can go and sit on the 50 meter line for the cheapest ticket price. That's why brookie has a great vibe - the hill. But it doesn't make commercial sense.

We need a new stadium - no doubt about it.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Another question for Darren, and lsz can wade in as well

Why would a young kid not like the hill at Brookie ? Not a parent myself, but I can't see how a youngun would prefer to be in a plastic seat rather than a bit of freedom to move on the hill

 

[Garts]

Kids love the hill. It is probably more the parents that don't as the kids have more freedom and want to roam. The parents probably want to stay put for safety reasons and the fact they want to watch the game.

Darren, I do not get you bringing the language used on the hill into the argument for a new stadium. That happens at every venue. If we play at the SFS those fans will be swearing from the plastic seats. I agree that we need a new stadium but disagree with some of the reasonings behind it, it also will not result in bigger crowds imo. But gee I would love one though.

 

[Darren]

Some good points Duff. Maybe it's different having young girls but this generation usually don't have the staying power or care factor that we had.
I'm a primary school teacher so see it everyday. With most parents not caring about going, the kids don't care much either. If parents stop going, the new generation won't go either. If it's too hard for families then the drops will continue. I'm in that category.
I enjoy Brookie but not the facilities. I do agree about having the option of standing up. SFS is not the greatest choice by any manner but if it's a financial bonus then I'm all for it.
To be honest, with children, planning for school and from the Gong I can't get there much anymore. Sad about this after probably 25 years full on!! Maybe getting older I'm wanting more comfort? My knee doesn't hold up that great standing on the hill all afternoon. (reco)

 

[Fluffy]

Never been to Leichardt Simon?

Brookie needs new facilities like food and Bar toilets and corporate.

I would love to see them have the hill with retractable canvas roof over it and some corporate boxes at the top. It would be unique and awesome yet still allowing sunshine to keep the grass healthy

we average 14-15K a year at brookie, we got less than 12K at gosford so a stadium like that would see fan numbers drop.

Even the rorters cant get a decent crowd

 

[Duff]

We've got little kids up on our part of the hill, probably the part you're talking about re inappropriateness.
Those kids are spoiled rotten. The girls in the area ( and some of the guys) practically act as babysitters. No harm could ever come to them, ther's too many people looking out for them. Only the language argument holds up but really Darren, as a Primary school teacher, you know they know all that anyway.

I do get the financial argument people are putting forward. Fine, knock down the grandstands and put Newcastle type one there, just leave the other half of the ground alone. Difference is a selling point for us. We can't compete with the big generic clubs from RL heartland. We need to be different.

 

[lsz]

Kids love or when they get to a certain age - my 4 year old is a touch too young

In a year we are hill all the way - it is just a timing thing

 

[simon64]

I've been to Leichhardt Fluffy. And Lidcombe. And Cumberland Oval. And Belmore. And I don't mind them. The atmosphere was great and the old NSWRL rivalry was fantastic.

But no club, besides Manly, plays at a ground like Brookvale full time. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to move. I want the ground updated. And I travel from the west to get there. Parramatta or Homebush would be far easier for me to access. But Manly belong on the northern beaches at Brookvale.

When I stand on the hill it all looks a bit patchwork.

I don't understand how the appeals for the funds to redevelop can be constantly denied.

The grounds I mentioned above have either been drastically upgraded or they are no longer in use / training facilities.

Whether we here like Brookvale in its current form or not is the issue. A club in the NRL can't continue to play at a ground like ours forever. And I don't want to think of Manly playing out of anywhere else. And that's what will eventually happen if it stays as is.

 

[Nike]

I've been to Leichhardt Fluffy. And Lidcombe. And Cumberland Oval. And Belmore. And I don't mind them. The atmosphere was great and the old NSWRL rivalry was fantastic.

But no club, besides Manly, plays at a ground like Brookvale full time. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to move. I want the ground updated. And I travel from the west to get there. Parramatta or Homebush would be far easier for me to access. But Manly belong on the northern beaches at Brookvale.

When I stand on the hill it all looks a bit patchwork.

I don't understand how the appeals for the funds to redevelop can be constantly denied.

The grounds I mentioned above have either been drastically upgraded or they are no longer in use / training facilities.

Whether we here like Brookvale in its current form or not is the issue. A club in the NRL can't continue to play at a ground like ours forever. And I don't want to think of Manly playing out of anywhere else. And that's what will eventually happen if it stays as is.

Comes down to the fact that our area is a blue ribbon Liberal seat and neither party has anything to gain by allocating funds to us. It's a shame and a bit ironic the people who we elect to serve us end up giving us the bum steer every time for their own sake.

Yet the pompous idiots that live around here can't seem to grasp that, play the game they play and MAKE them cough up some cash. There is so much to gain from a Labor swing in this area, regardless of your political affiliation. Just years and years of ingrained arrogance and elitism preventing this.

Before I cop it, I personally don't subscribe to any political party ideology since none of them represent me.

 

[simon64]

You're right ifernolan. No politician gives a flying continental about upgrades to Brookvale.

But, this has to stop being an excuse. Look at the grounds that have been redeveloped.

Parramatta.....if you want to go that far back.
Penrith.
Kogarah
WIN
Hunter
SFS....from the old Sydney Sports Ground
Lang Park.
Redfern.....I'm sure work has been done there too.

And yet, we still ask for crumbs and get less than that.

 

[The Who]

Penrith, Leichhardt and Shark Park are in the same mould as Brookie, so there are other clubs with so-called 'suburban' grounds. I'll agree that the toilets and food-beveral facilities at Brookie need improvement.
However, the Hill is something we should cherish. How many of us, our children and even grandchildren have run/slid down the steep eastern side and been exhilarated by surviving? Who needs fun rides when you have this form of free entertainment?
I'm going to the Members area at ANZ next Friday. I bet I don't enjoy the spectacle nearly as much as I do from the Brookie Hill.

 

[DSM5]

Duff, I'm sue I've seen you up there at Bluetongue. And I agree with all those who complain about the beer lines. And while you wait for service you can't see the game, no TV screens. Bummer. However what I find surprising is that there is only one bus running from the leagues club up there. It's a great way to get up there, quick, and cheap. Why don't more fans use the service? I drive from the city to Brookvale, dump the car and get driven in comfort to and from the stadium. all good. I actually met and had a chat to Brenton Lawrence's grandmum. A lovely woman who told me how much Brenton loves playing with the Eagles. I recommend the bus to all fans.