Trump

[lsz]

Honestly do we really need to go through this and what he actually said?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1974938887039631680

 

[47MVEagle]

Hope you guys are enjoying your echo chamber. Rest assured, I will no longer be upsetting your safe space with, God forbid, an alternative point of view. As I am apparently a flat earth troll, I’m sure you will not consider that any great loss. Enjoy.

Yeah no worries mate, good to see you bow out so gracefully - oh wait…

 

[Highflier]

I know Ill regret this, so que the leftist pile on, but I do wonder how all you TDS suffers will feel if Trump manages to get this Hamas Israel deal done? Will you give him any credit for it, or how about some credit for even trying?
Or will you take the laughable and arguably destructive attempt, by the look at me I'm the accidental PM of Aushstralia " recognizing the nonexistent state of Palestine with its nonexistent government " view thats what pushed the deal over the line, what a joke 🙂
Anyways Im sure there is a few of you clearer thinkers that will give him some begrudging credit, while there will be a rabid nest of others who even if he cured cancer would still criticize him relentlessly .
On other matters very pleased with Kobes efforts yesterday, although not happy to hear that he needs some sort of operation on his hip

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

look at me I'm the accidental PM of Aushstralia

How is Albanese 'accidental'? Didn't he absolutely decimate the Libs, to the point the party's future is on life support?

As for Trump, so far as I'm concerned he's complicit in Netanyahu's genocide, he could have reined that monster in a long time ago but he gave him free reign to do what he's done.

To give him credit for peace now would be akin to giving him credit for peace with Iran on the basis he bombed them then stopped bombing them, voila, peace.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

even if he cured cancer would still criticize him relentlessly .

Mate if he cures cancer ...??
He wants pregnant women to suffer dangerous fevers rather than take a safe drug. He's appointed a vaccine-sceptic psycho as his health secretary. If he has any positive achievements at all its highly unlikely to be in the health field.

 

[47MVEagle]

I know Ill regret this, so que the leftist pile on, but I do wonder how all you TDS suffers

I stopped reading here because in your mind, anyone who isn’t a fervent cult member who thinks Trump lays golden eggs apparently suffers from derangement.

What is your opinion on Trump ignoring a Supreme Court judge’s ruling & sending the military into Oregon to deal with what he claims are domestic terrorists (antifa) - when in actual fact it’s people demonstrating against the ICE detention facilities there?

 

[h27272727]

I know Ill regret this, so que the leftist pile on, but I do wonder how all you TDS suffers will feel if Trump manages to get this Hamas Israel deal done? Will you give him any credit for it, or how about some credit for even trying?
Or will you take the laughable and arguably destructive attempt, by the look at me I'm the accidental PM of Aushstralia " recognizing the nonexistent state of Palestine with its nonexistent government " view thats what pushed the deal over the line, what a joke 🙂
Anyways Im sure there is a few of you clearer thinkers that will give him some begrudging credit, while there will be a rabid nest of others who even if he cured cancer would still criticize him relentlessly .
On other matters very pleased with Kobes efforts yesterday, although not happy to hear that he needs some sort

Not all right-aligned folk willingly support genocide / rewriting history. If you were ever actually confronted with one I also suspect you would snap out of it. The rest of this is a bit of a late night rant, so forgive me where it is sloppy.

Given the state of that post it appears you are just totally out of the loop / naive to any of the historical context to the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Trump's involved so time to hop in I guess. Seems an awful lot like a pattern with MAGAts. Loudest in the room but seldom something is actually said.

US has propped up and aided Israel for half a century. Other US presidents have terribly failed the Palestinian people on several occasions. Yet that does not absolve Trump from overseeing an escalating genocide for 9 months. It says something that Israel felt so untethered. Trump's only tangible contributions leading up to this point have been to suck up to Israel; from supporting their reckless motivations in Iran to spreading stupid narcissistic **** like this,

US people have begun learning about the Palestinian situation in recent years (as have many who are online, viewing the clips). For the first time even the Americans are starting to make some noise about it all. The international community is well ahead of them and increasingly vocal. This issue is now at the doorstep of Netanyahu and Trump; I don't expect they can ignore it much longer. Netanyahu will push the limits though, and Trump's weak attempts at resolving the Russian-Ukranian conflict give him confidence to delay and ignore US rhetoric.

As for this peace plan offered by the US, it essentially just rehashes elements of the 1993 Oslo accord agreements. While nothing in it suggests Trump had any direct role in its creation, it is the a move in the right direction. One mistake it makes is not acknowledging Israel's role in the conflict pre 2023 (apartheid, displacement, oppression). I also see some potentially serious flaws with certain points and am a bit concerned it may just be for show.

For example, point 4 requests that all hostages be returned dead or alive else the 'final solution' continues. Half of the hostages are likely buried deep in rubble at this point as a result of Israel's bombings. Is this a genuine sticking point? Point 7, why wait for the agreement to send in aid? ****ing war crime in writing right there. Point 13 is good (the way it was heading before Netenyahu got involved). Point 16 pretends that Israel isn't a guarded fortress already. Point 19 appears to allude to a two-state solution; though it is terribly ambiguous. Such ambiguity is a huge problem in peace agreements (Palestinians have heard empty promises for decades while their living situation has worsened indefinitely). There has not been hope for a Palestinian child born since the 1970s, less so today.

The west has for so long parroted the US stance. What I can thank Trump for is that he has brought the US down to such a low point that western leaders now reject and/or ignore the de facto US position and act for themselves, thus applying pressure back on the US. We should not be tied to the actions of the US, nor the Israeli state. I don't care if you like our leader or not, it is not his fault you are not informed at this point in time.

Doesn't have to always be that way, I find this video is a good start (focused more on recent times)

West Bank (not Gaza): watch the first few mins at least

 

[Cliffycomeback]

How is Albanese 'accidental'? Didn't he absolutely decimate the Libs, to the point the party's future is on life support?

As for Trump, so far as I'm concerned he's complicit in Netanyahu's genocide, he could have reined that monster in a long time ago but he gave him free reign to do what he's done.

To give him credit for peace now would be akin to giving him credit for peace with Iran on the basis he bombed them then stopped bombing them, voila, peace.

While the casualties in Gaza are horrific, they are nowhere near a level which would be considered genocidal. 60000 deaths out of a population of 2.42 million people is hardly genocide. The real genocide is occuring in Africa where Christians are being slaughtered by Muslims. Funnily enough, I am yet to read of any outrage about this on here or from the left in general.

 

[h27272727]

While the casualties in Gaza are horrific, they are nowhere near a level which would be considered genocidal. 60000 deaths out of a population of 2.42 million people is hardly genocide. The real genocide is occuring in Africa where Christians are being slaughtered by Muslims. Funnily enough, I am yet to read of any outrage about this on here or from the left in general.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLevant/comments/1nxv463/israeli_drone_footage_shows_scale_of_israels

60,000 is the confirmed count through public / private hospitals. But if you watch that drone shot it will become apparent that only a portion of victims will be getting to the hospitals at all. Many hospitals have also been blown up by Israel.


Touched on this a few posts ago somewhere but there is something known as the direct deaths : indirect deaths ratio. There’s starvation, lack of water supply (has been cut off in many regions), open sewage, almost non-existent healthcare (report from October 2024 (!!!) was that just 17/36 hospitals in Gaza remained operational). That figure likely has dwindled further. As a result, disease will be a non-trivial factor and I imagine only a small percent end up in hospitals.

Estimates that factor in indirect deaths, as well as uncertainty surrounding current figures were arriving at figures in excess of 180,000 in late 2024. Since then, the intensity has increased and international reporters still have been barred access. As I noted recently, no one is digging through the rubble to count each death. The 60,000 figure is doing far more harm than good at this stage, but given there’s no way to count bodies you don’t have, I understand it requires international intervention to truly learn the scale of what has happened in Gaza

 

[h27272727]

What do all the Democrat supporters think of this? Five times Israel has agreed to a two state solution but the Palestinians rejected it. As per Bill Clinton.

**** sake,

Again it is so mind numbingly sad that this is being politicised. Every democrat and republican has been woeful in their efforts. Today, around 300 house republicans and democrats are funded ~ 100K+ on average by AIPAC. Israeli influence has been increasingly strong amongst US Politicians since the 70s). Christian / religious elements at play too; also anti-Arab sentiment (worsened following 9/11). Most current democrats vote for pro-Israeli agenda (all republicans). It has been that way since almost forever in the US (since period where Israel was used as a Cold War proxy)

Search up Bill Clinton’s messaging / stance on the conflict. Consider if his thoughts are the be all and end all

Look at the account that posted that video. Consider their motives and whether their video alone will provide sufficient perspective. Note the connotations associated with it’s title

Search up the 1993 Oslo Accords. Search up the agreed green line and what happened to it today (link to video). Search up Israel’s policy regarding the two state solution over the past 30 years (of particular interest is the Netanyahu period)

It’s such a complex conflict, it really warrants watching a few documentaries or reading quite a bit to get the background understanding necessary to watch videos such as the one you linked and not just take it at face value

The problem with peace is that it has to be a two-way deal. Palestinians began pushing for peace deals in the 70’s (see Arafat’s 1974 UN olive branch speech on behalf of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation). After the 93 Oslo accords and subsequent rise in Israeli and Muslim religious fundamentalist terrorist attacks it forced Israel to finally step in and begin the process; granting the Palestinian Authority some governance of the occupied West Bank and Gazan territories.

Netanyahu then assisted the rise of Hamas, making it policy to divide the Palestinian communities to prevent the two state solution (there are formal records of this). If you watch the documentary below you will see that they remain occupied and under a system of apartheid today. Palestinian areas were walled off and left undeveloped. The Israeli military patrol the streets and regularly shut down areas to walk Jewish settlers through towns.

Actually, Im going to stop myself here, I haven’t even really gotten to the crux of my point. I don’t care about your politics. Whether you have a genuine interest in this or not, I think it is well worth your while to give it a minute or your day to watch through a documentary or two. I have plugged this one many times before, but it really is a great starting point as it is related more to the current situation, doesn’t get lost in the details and is a short watch (29min). If you watch it and believe there is still no such thing as Israeli (and lesser extent, US) propaganda on this issue, that’s OK. I think it is at least noble to consider the possibility that things aren’t as they seem

 

[manly al]

Probably should have been handled much better back when the British had essentially full control over the greater Palestine region just after W W 2 After 3 or so years of trying to supress a Jewish armed attempt to establish a Jewish state there , finally relented with no real or measured plan or international plan to accommodate the fall out with the forced relocation then of tens of thousands of Palestinians to cater for a new Jewish homeland
After the Holacast, certainly a case to provide a safer Jewish sanctuary somewhere , and there were some suggestions of alternative various locations apart from what was then the greater Palestine region
Pretty much a battle weary world also and naturally just after W W 2 but the Poms and the U S with the means to still have the main clout there at the time , just became more focussed in allowing the establishment of Israel then any practical considerations or surety for a self determining Palestinian state there as well
Had the capacity with peace keeping forces combined and gradually other countries could have participated , then cold war politics kicked in and latter religion extremism also and then just became too polarised there and up until recent times
Credit to Trump on a few levels with this recent proposal to improve matters there , not totally his concept but with a bit of resolve by the main players there , could just have something going for it
Maybe not a total genocide motivation for Gaza residents for many months now but pretty close to it and that can never be justified