Dogsler Ponder

[Captain Moondog]

So he had sole control over the players but it was the players that won it not him?

I feel his ultimate aim was actually to gain soul control over the players. Who knows what clauses may have been put in future contracts?

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Ramrod, did Des betray us or did we betray him first. Coaches and players leave, at least he left us with a premiership victory!

Interesting take, Dan.
However, this is how I see it:

1. First of all, even if he was "only" paid $450K (or whatever the amount was) instead of the Dogs's purchase price of $850K?, his earnings would still be more than what most fans will make.

2. Currently, Manly is not a wealthy club. Manly has done well by him over the years. We gave him two premierships as a player and an opportunity to coach. In 1996, anyone in our junior ranks sitting on the bench would have come away with a Premiership ring. Who knows what his prospects would have been if it weren't for Manly? Certainly, school teaching would not reap as well. I remembered in the early days, he said in the media he wasn't a career coach.

3. I remember reading an article about Ken Irvine - who played 13 seasons at Norths, and when he sought Manly out to play in maroon and white, we initially asked him to reconsider, especially since he already became a life member at Norths. Irvine said he wanted to win a Grand Final at Manly -(whereby he thought he would not achieve at Norths). The moral to this story is, Manly brings success to players.

4. Premiership victories also benefited him, not just us. Now, his stature as a coach has been elevated and his asking price has soared. The fortune flows both ways.

5. As a fan, ... hypothetically, if I'm financially comfortable (not rich) and if I was good enough to play or coach Manly, I would have done it for next to nothing. I would just be happy to be wearing maroon and white and be forever inscribed into Manly folklore, even if it was not economically rewarding. Remember Beaver who stayed for less?
Hell, I'm envious of those who had an opportunity to step onto the field in a Manly guernsey even for just one game. They don't know how lucky they are to be a Manly man (from a fan's perspective).

6. Take Zorba for example - whilst being bagged and dumped, he never said a bad word against our club. He could have been bitter in public (like Piggins at Souths), but Zorba was gracious. One thing though, I'm tired of his praises for the ex-coach. He should read the emails of what that person really thought of him, behind his back.

7. As Arko have said, he didn't have to rip out the guts of the club on his way to the exit. I would have been sympathetic to him still if he was kind to us when he left. I didn't like the fact he took so many staff (leaving us in a crisis) and potentially key players from us in the future. I think what saved us was some players standing up and declared their loyalty - players like Choc, then Killer, etc. If it wasn't for them, where would our club be today? Those emails didn't paint him in a good light but it did stop his legal threats. If not for those emails, he could have crushed us permanently. It's all about him, see.

-
How about all you fellas in this forum?
*** What would you give to have the opportunity to be a Manly player or coach?

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Your points 1-4 are irrelevant red herrings.
5 – cloud cuckoo land. Unless you are a Clive Palmer-type looking for a fun diversion, coaching at NRL level takes a lot out of you. The best earning years of your life could quickly be consumed, that is, if you worked hard enough, and were lucky enough, to last a few years. You are probably imagining being coach for a day.
6. Zorba – so you are in the camp of those who don't think he is the leak. So who do you think is the leak?
7. My recollection is that Arko said those words in the midst of the media beat-up frenzy. When Hasler came out and denied he was ripping the club apart, Arko said, OK I accept that, or words to that effect. Just my recollection.

So your current agenda is … interesting. Denigrate Hasler's record as a Manly coach (not much support for that line, judging by the comments above), and reinforce the media stereotype of him, as our despised traitor?
Or could it be your agenda is the opposite – to remind us that Des was pretty darn good. And that Zorba has never said a bad word about us… ... ?? Interesting.

 

[Utility Player]

Just 2 questions Zorba must know of the alleged comments Des made about him so why does he still praise Des at every opportunity.

Is Des the only coach to ever take the support team he assembled at a club with him to his new coaching gig.

I more thing the Des situation was a bit like the DCE one, Des wanted an upgrade on an existing contract in order to extend for a few more seasons, DCE got his but for whatever reasons management decided to go in another direction in regard to Des.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I'm sure someone can let us know if this is no longer the case:

Though Penn now has over 50% shareholding in the Sea Eagles, (I think following acquisition of the Leagues Club's shares?) he still has only 3 positions on the Board, while the Football Club has 2 and Surfside has 2.

 

[Dan]

Ramrod, it had nothing to do with dollars. We simply did not offer Hasler a new cOntract. We beat around the bush and took forever to even make an offer, by that stage it was far too late and the bulldogs had made an offer.

Whilst Lowe was here he went as far as saying that he would not be recommending that we extend his contract.

Those are all facts, by the time we got around to making any decent offer, the dogs had already made a good one and hasler had signed. He tried to get out early but we refused and legal action was threatened. To his credit he still got on with it and coached us professionally and to a victory, he was gone fr about August if what I have heard is correct.

Fact ishe is an outstanding coach and he coached is very well despite many hurdles, we didn't like the way he did things and so we tried to alter that, he left and now coaches another team. Geoff Toovey is now our coach, no one was betrayed and the world is still going around.

It's not worth being bitter over it, let's just get on with it hey?

 

[joeboy]

I agree with all that dan, and I'm not bitter, but I will be if he ends up poaching any of our players.

The only sore point for me, is the underhanded dealings these mysterious emails allude to, you know the ones that seem to have stopped hassled in his tracks from filing for unfair dismissal. They must have had some powerful stuff in them.

I think there are some ethical concerns over the whole thing, and while manly can be accused if not being active enough in suring up a contract, that is hardly unethical 18 months out from the end of haslers current one, the bulldogs and hasler most definantly contravened ethical practices. I've always hated the bulldogs and I despise them even more now.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

. . . Fact ishe is an outstanding coach and he coached is very well despite many hurdles, . . . , no one was betrayed and the world is still going around.

It's not worth being bitter over it, let's just get on with it hey?

Er, my guess - that is exactly what Ramrod wants us to conclude.
Compare that attitude with this next one (admittedly crude, as per it's author's usual style, but representing a popular view among Manly fans):

Look in gonna say it. Why don't they cut the pricks whole f******n head off

Goodness, 2 quite different points of view.
I wonder why Ramrod would be bothering with this at this time? Nothing about to happen at board level, surely?

 

[Utility Player]

I think there are some ethical concerns over the whole thing, and while manly can be accused if not being active enough in suring up a contract, that is hardly unethical 18 months out from the end of haslers current one

Same situation as the DCE one really, had 2 years to run on his contract but wanted an upgrade.

Comparisons could be made with the Hodgkinson case, Manly let him sign elsewhere for big dollars because they felt they had a much cheaper and just as good option in DCE. They let Des go as they felt they had a much cheaper and potentially as good a coach in Tooves.

It all happened a bit quicker than both parties wanted and I am sure there is much more in it that we will ever know.

 

[Ramrod]

Ramrod, it had nothing to do with dollars. We simply did not offer Hasler a new cOntract. We beat around the bush and took forever to even make an offer, by that stage it was far too late and the bulldogs had made an offer.

Whilst Lowe was here he went as far as saying that he would not be recommending that we extend his contract.

Those are all facts, by the time we got around to making any decent offer, the dogs had already made a good one and hasler had signed. He tried to get out early but we refused and legal action was threatened. To his credit he still got on with it and coached us professionally and to a victory, he was gone fr about August if what I have heard is correct.

Fact ishe is an outstanding coach and he coached is very well despite many hurdles, we didn't like the way he did things and so we tried to alter that, he left and now coaches another team. Geoff Toovey is now our coach, no one was betrayed and the world is still going around.

It's not worth being bitter over it, let's just get on with it hey?

OK. Set aside the issue that we let him go.
I'm not sore about that.

This is what I'm sore about = the way he pressured staff to go with him, abusing those who didn't want to go (and in front of other staff), sitting outside other staff's homes with contracts for them to sign with the Dogs... that sort of stuff.

I mean, what kind of a person would do that to the club they have been associated for so long?

If he went on his own, I would still herald him as a Manly hero.
That's my main issue. :-/

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Your points 1-4 are irrelevant red herrings.
5 – cloud cuckoo land. Unless you are a Clive Palmer-type looking for a fun diversion, coaching at NRL level takes a lot out of you. The best earning years of your life could quickly be consumed, that is, if you worked hard enough, and were lucky enough, to last a few years. You are probably imagining being coach for a day.
6. Zorba – so you are in the camp of those who don't think he is the leak. So who do you think is the leak?
7. My recollection is that Arko said those words in the midst of the media beat-up frenzy. When Hasler came out and denied he was ripping the club apart, Arko said, OK I accept that, or words to that effect. Just my recollection.

So your current agenda is … interesting. Denigrate Hasler's record as a Manly coach (not much support for that line, judging by the comments above), and reinforce the media stereotype of him, as our despised traitor?
Or could it be your agenda is the opposite – to remind us that Des was pretty darn good. And that Zorba has never said a bad word about us… ... ?? Interesting.

5. I actually live in a mental asylum cause they said I've got "rocks" in my head. They let me use the computer.

6. Zorba - he may or may not be the leaks, I don't have any proof. I guess a few people would like to judge before the providing evidence. Glad Snake didn't have these ones in the jury. I'm not in anyone's camp. It's true, I'm tired of his unwavering support for Dogsler.

7. I guess we should be happy with your recollection as a matter of fact.

** Denigrating Dogsler's record - I'm guilty, for sure.
I'm still sore about his under-handed dealings, trying to tear my club apart. I'm not sore about him leaving.

My apologies, as for the last part, I couldn't decipher.
My low mental capacity cannot cope with the cryptical coherence of your most illustrious and superior insight.

I am glad to see so many passionate Manly supporters, each with differing opinions. Don't mind me, I just talk crap most of the time, but we do share one thing in common - our love for the Sea Eagles

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[MadMarcus]

If you really think Des wasn't a good coach for us just ask yourself - Was I this upset when Peter Sharp left?

If the answer is no, you think Des was a good coach for us.

If the answer is yes, you should seek professional help.

 

[Dan]

Ramrod, so they say.

The thing is we are taking ones word for gospel vs another's.
He didn't pressure anyone. I can tell you for fact the likes of crusher went without any pressure from des.

The club was factionalised and many of those in one faction have now left the club.
For better or for worse. We have a more unified management team and that can only be prosperous for us.

You need to consider that if you believe one thing that is written in the paper, you then have to believe it all. If you then believe it all, you then need to realise that even some of the same journalists contradicted themselves, let alone both papers.

And thus that means you can't believe anything you read in the paper.

My point then is that something happened, we need to accept we don't know what and therefore that des was a legend coach and a legend of the club and game.

He now coaches the bulldogs and that is that.

 

[torana355]

Guys who cares about Hasler anymore, lets talk about Tooves instead.

 

[Dan]

Agreed its just the L Ron Hubbard brainwash is almost complete and I hate to see so many blinded by the wool, when the truth is far less scandalous.

 

[Ramrod]

Agreed its just the L Ron Hubbard brainwash is almost complete and I hate to see so many blinded by the wool, when the truth is far less scandalous.

Precisely. The wool has done a good job on my poor gullible self. :s
I will never ever see Dogsler in the same light, ever again.
Glad the emails came through though - nicely halted the legal actions he so threatened against Manly.

 

[Phantar]

Anyone spot Todd Greenberg's poodle, spying out the Round 9 opposition, at last night's game?

 

[jjai]

Haha that's right Byso I had forgotten. Was a cracker day and wish we had arranged more of them.

Ramrod, did Des betray us or did we betray him first. Coaches and players leave, at least he left us with a premiership victory!

Touchy subject this one.
Doesn`t take an Ironstine to know once Max was going Des wasn`t going to be too far behind.
If you look back you will see all this crap started once Max had left the joint..Followed by Lowe leaving ..
des didn`t betray us we didn`t betray him, i have a feeling he was f***d up by some of the board or the owners..

 

[WAMF]

Someone should insist that Ryan stands up for the next photo.

 

[voicefromthehill]

In them early beginnings we had nothing, we were lucky to have a chad randall

Are you saying there were two of them!