Post-Game Discussion Dragons v Manly [Round 22, 2023]

[Terry Zarsoff]

Have we ever pinned a team down their end with swarming committed defence and fast off the line? I don't ever remember seeing it this season. Great Manly teams in the past would do that consistently.

On the other hand, our goal line defence has improved immeasurably in recent weeks. I certainly feel far more confident that they can hold the other team out than I have for much of the last two seasons.

Sure, in the last two games the opposition has scored late points, but most teams would start to tire if they had to do a similar amount of tackling.

 

[NREagle]

I've come to terms with the fact that it will be yet another year without a premiership, so will just enjoy the good things that happen for the rest of this season:-

DCE's 300 and Croker's 100. So good to see the respect and admiration shown to DCE by his team mates reaching his milestone, and absolutely love the way Croker speaks about wearing the jersey and playing for the Club.

Also great work to the Manly media team. Their socials have been outstanding this year and their work in celebrating these two milestones really did the players justice.

The game - so good to see the Saab/Koula partnership developing. Saab finally backing himself in defence and attack and it is working. Koula is just such a delight to watch and is really growing into his game.

Schu - immediately more dangerous when he runs the ball. More of that is needed!

Special mention to these three - Seibold said in the presser that Saab and Koula didn't train all week as they were sick, as was Schu.

Garrick - plenty of bandages (he also alluded to his injury struggles on Insta earlier this week) but he still keeps working bloody hard in not his favoured position for the team.

Lodge - ran hard, tackled hard. Keep it up.

Good to see some of the old boys there to celebrate DCE's 300 - Darcy Lussick, Tom Symonds, Jamie Buhrer, Wolfman etc.

Oh, and check out Wolfman's footage on his Insta page of the team song - I've never seen Turbo so involved!!

 

[Bearfax]

Actually I thought it was one of his better efforts. He will infuriate like that for a few years, then hopefully hit maturity. A bit like Cliff Lyons, who was pretty dusty early in his career.

Yeh I find the ongoing criticism surprising. Its said he's not tackling well, he's not taking on the line, he's lazy etc. I look at the stats again and note top tackler Brad Parker, who takes on the line, defends well etc. Yet Parker has an 82.4% tackle efficiency, has 3 line breaks, 2 try assists this year. Sluggish Schuster has an 86.8% tackle efficiency, 8 line breaks, 11 try assists this year. Go figure. I must be watching the wrong game. Schuster isn't setting the world on fire...yet...but he's coming along fine.

 

[Ben]

lost the 6 agains 6-1

That’s because we can never generate quick enough play the balls to win them. We never win the ruck

 

[Ryan]

there is something systematically wrong with our entire game plan. I can only put it down to the coach.

Yes, we had issues under Des. But this guy just isn't much chop.

So much of our play and structure is slow and boring. there is little pop or power unless a particular group of players take it on their own back to do something.

Look at short dropouts. they seem to get the rub more often than not and have been really successful for some teams. do we try.... NO

Fast play the balls? NO

One of my favorites. Penalty, kick for touch, take tap, and for whatever reason pass 2 into a slow plodding forward and end up 5 meters behind the point of where the tap was taken. This allows the defensive team to get through 2 tackles without taking a backward step..... INFURIATING.

And defense. apparently Seicums specialty. the way the dragons were rolling up the park today was shocking.

The shoe has obviously been told to forget about his size and condition for the rest of this season. Yes he will be in the back row soon but we need him at 5/8 THIS YEAR. bust his balls to get in shape and pack it on for next year.

at the beginning of the year Tom was taking hit 5 of sets so often. Made no logical sense but then he gets injured and rubes starts doing it. obviously a coached play for whatever reason.

We look so far behind in everything and the only thing keeping our heads above water is the roster. Can you imagine if we didn't have DCE, Hamole and or Garrick. we would be racing the tigers to the spoon.

Saab for me has been really strong. given he hardly gets into open play hes doing a great job.

Lodge has been huge. hate him all you want he's got size and bulk.

We are a 9 - 12 side, unfortunately. might jag some more wins on the back of particular players but even if we make the 8, out in the first week against better opposition will be a strong bet.

What a perfect post mate, agree with absolutely everything.

Next season, we have a new main assistant coach. This CANNOT be Blake Green, or it proves any mercenary would be welcome. He literally turned his back on us in a time of need, and agitated for a release to get a few extra bucks.

But we also have (is it the wallabies or Waratahs) conditioning team coming in, so I HOPE that makes a difference (one thing I will say though is the Wallabies have been complete arse).

We absolutely need a shift in the idea of forwards. You can carry two power forwards (say Paseka / Lodge), but the rest need to be lean, mean, fast, and intimidating - like Liam Martin (I know I always say him, but jeez he impresses me).

When we are carrying say Sipley, Jake, Schuster, Tuilagi, Croker, Woods and others around our middles, is there any wonder opposition teams speed and agility tear us a new one? It's not the players fault they aren't mobile and fast - they do what they can, and it's Siebold that fields them, and it's also when opposition teams tear us apart around the ruck, almost scoring a try per set last game against The Sharks.

Anyways mate, you're spot on.

 

[Cliffy's Jockstrap]

Good, hard-fought win where we have not won for a long time and lacking some normal starting forward choices. When you are at best a fringe 7/8/9 spot team then you take what you can manage to get. I actually think that was a good one, against determined opposition.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Roosters are **** , we are a big chance I reckon

Manly has won 3 of our last 4, Chooks have lost 4 of their last 5 but will still start as favourtes, but not by much. Momentum is on our side, it's a wonderful thing.

 

[The Who]

That’s because we can never generate quick enough play the balls to win them. We never win the ruck

Or is it because our pack is too slow to get back onside?
Jurbo also pushes the boundaries with his hold-downs and it results in six-agains.

 

[Dion Johnson]

I

Btw, I hope to see Weekes on the wing next game, not Vaega. Thoughts people?

Totally against the grain I would have Weekes in the number 1 jersey, Garrick on the left wing.

 

[Cliffy's Jockstrap]

This might be a pretty unpopular thought....I reckon the performances of Weekes this year say he is not yet a first grader, even on wing. I would rather promote Harper for a crunch game. Goes without needing to be said, that I would keep Garrick at FB. Thought he was good tonight.

 

[The Royal Soup]

That’s because we can never generate quick enough play the balls to win them. We never win the ruck

exactly right, and have a slow sloppy hooker

 

[ALinda]

Another heart-stopper game but a win's a win and we'll happily take it. Glad we won for DCE and Croker and it's so good we finally broke the hoodoo.

Can understand why Keppie was dropped to Blacktown (needs to work on his errors and discipline) but cannot understand why Bullemor was dropped as he made an impact up the middle with many effective runs.

I never thought I'd say this but I'm so glad we took Lodge in. What a difference he's made to our pack and is leading by example.

As it's a 5-day turnaround for Thursday's game, I hope they rest up well this week.

 

[Jethro]

Team Victory Song:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=320877906944762

It was good to see Jamie Buhrer in their with the boys belting out the Team Victory Song too.

 

[Ryan]

Don't be too premature to write Weekes off guys after 12 games, in a very disrupted squad playing out of position. For many years, he's been a class above (similar to Olakau'atu, Schuster, Koula & himself).

I really, REALLY hope we stick with him, and give him a chance.

 

[globaleagle]

"Phew"

So the coach still doesn't feel the need to make Manly practise catching short kicks???

I'm beginning to think that Jake is the more valuable brother...!

Also...


wooooooooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooo!

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Didn’t want to get on the team tonight either but this point is insanely idiotic, it’s such a negative play, we lose ground more often than not, tap the ball and hit it up, we make 6 to 8 meters every time, it’s equivalent to just throwing away a tackle.

exactly. I can see it. you can see it. blind Freddy can see it but people paid hundreds
of thousands are oblivious.

Dont know if you watch the cricket but the England team (BOOOOO) is now coached by Brendon McCullum. He has instituted BAZ BALL which is a super attacking style. It's only in its infancy but I love the idea of a coach trying something new. Seibold looks to be so conservative. almost bordering on asleep.

How about as a team they get coached to make every play they can a positive thing. Penrith is the closest we have in the comp to that style and it seems to be going ok for them.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Dont know if you watch the cricket but the England team (BOOOOO) is now coached by Brendon McCullum. He has instituted BAZ BALL which is a super attacking style. It's only in its infancy but I love the idea of a coach trying something new. Seibold looks to be so conservative. almost bordering on asleep.

How about as a team they get coached to make every play they can a positive thing. Penrith is the closest we have in the comp to that style and it seems to be going ok for them.

You need the cattle who can actually handle that style. Too many errors on early tackles in NRL quickly gifts points, field position and momentum to the opposition.
Manly's attack, especially Koula Garrick and Saab, is coming along really well and keeping us in the hunt right now.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

What a perfect post mate, agree with absolutely everything.

Next season, we have a new main assistant coach. This CANNOT be Blake Green, or it proves any mercenary would be welcome. He literally turned his back on us in a time of need, and agitated for a release to get a few extra bucks.

But we also have (is it the wallabies or Waratahs) conditioning team coming in, so I HOPE that makes a difference (one thing I will say though is the Wallabies have been complete arse).

We absolutely need a shift in the idea of forwards. You can carry two power forwards (say Paseka / Lodge), but the rest need to be lean, mean, fast, and intimidating - like Liam Martin (I know I always say him, but jeez he impresses me).

When we are carrying say Sipley, Jake, Schuster, Tuilagi, Croker, Woods and others around our middles, is there any wonder opposition teams speed and agility tear us a new one? It's not the players fault they aren't mobile and fast - they do what they can, and it's Siebold that fields them, and it's also when opposition teams tear us apart around the ruck, almost scoring a try per set last game against The Sharks.

Anyways mate, you're spot on.

I personally would love to see the Walker brothers as Attack and D coaches overseen by Seibold. I know it won't happen but something needs to change.

I know i harp on about Des and I admit the guy was flawed in many ways but what i did like about him was bounce. When he came in to replace TBAZ the side was 15th. we bounced to a semi-final. Same players. Tom injured again and yet we stuck in and did so well.

We then had a bad year during covid and the Vball Revolution sure, but in 2021 we had a huge bounce to a prelim.

What im getting at is I needed to see a bounce with Seibold this year and it just hasn't happened.

Take the turbo factor out as he was injured last year and this and look at the results. we are bog average. theres been no huge rainbow gate-style scandal this year to point at so all the new coaching team has done is taken a side that has the ability to bounce back and rolled them along the ground.

Whats this about the ARU fitness team coming in? WTF. Rugby generally takes NRL type stallions and makes them into Clydesdales. we are screwed if this is the way we are heading?

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

You need the cattle who can actually handle that style. Too many errors on early tackles in NRL quickly gifts points, field position and momentum to the opposition.
Manly's attack, especially Koula Garrick and Saab, is coming along really well and keeping us in the hunt right now.

And that's why signing players like Sharon, Jake Arthur and promoting Aleo vera so much seems to be against what the best sides are doing.

I love Koula and Saab combo.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

And that's why signing players like Sharon, Jake Arthur and promoting Aleo vera so much seems to be against what the best sides are doing.

So who was available and happy to join Manly for the same money as those players?