GAME DAY - Manly v Eels [Round 24, 2015] Toovey Farewell Tour

[ALinda]

I was out there today standing in the rain with the other 11,000 victims. We can't blame Willie not being there.

Well said @simon64 - a good summation of what happened/didn't happen today.
(Only I think Willie might have made a difference out there....who knows.)
Imo complacency got the better of us and, as said elsewhere, we forgot to win!

 

[Chip and Chase]

I realised today we lacked a cool calm forward leader that can rally the pigs. Someone who has been there done that. If we had Kitey, Kingdog, Nood, or one of similar experience we might have been able to turn things around today. Probably where we have missed Willie the last two weeks. Ballin is the only forward with the experience, but he isn't the one doing the grunt work and leading by example. We just needed to play smart, tough, up the middle foootball...but no one wanted to show the way. We've dropped so much experience out of our pack over the last 2-3 years it's caught up with us this year I feel.

 

[Wombat Legacy]

@HappilyManly I'd love you to tell me in an analytical way where I was wrong here? Why do you disagree? Honestly, any points.....if you can't, then your just being an A-hole disagreeing for no reason.

List where I have written something wrong?

You carry on like a little sissy bitch ha ha ))

 

[Wombat Legacy]

@HappilyManly I'd love you to tell me in an analytical way where I was wrong here? Why do you disagree? Honestly, any points.....if you can't, then your just being an A-hole disagreeing for no reason.

List where I have written something wrong?

I was out there today standing in the rain with the other 11,000 victims. We can't blame Willie not being there. Or injuries. The Slime had plenty of players out.

I'm not going to criticise the effort. There was not one player out there today not putting in.
But some things were just frustrating to watch.

We really ignored the conditions as was evidenced by the amount of dropped ball. They were the great leveller today. In the dry, we would have cut them to pieces. But as they say......shoulda, coulda, woulda......didn't.

The loss of Ballin hurt. And I don't agree that Hodges should have been on the bench just in case. He would have been more than useless in those conditions.

The Slime jumped the gun all day. They got back 10 most times but were a good 2 metres offside by the time the ball had been played.

DCE's kicking game was a shocker. The grubber behind the line was on all day and he continually went to the air. The one time he kicked at the post, it almost came off. Extremely unlucky not to score. He'll win us more games than play poor ones but we really needed a rudder out there today and he just wasn't the guiding influence we needed.

Oh well, mathematically we can still make it.........which of course means we won't. (But I'll be stoked to be proven wrong)

Like you I braved the rain for a very mediocre performance. The effort underscored the dismal, inconsistent season the playing group has put together. The old boys must have thought, " what the **** are we doing standing in the pissing rain watching this half hearted performance for ?"
It was quite an anti climax-and having no full strength beers in the second half rubbed salt into my open wounds

 

[KOMORI]

@Ryan,
You're right. It was a **** game plan from Tooves:
1. Instead of Manly having 39% possession for the entire game, his game plan should have been to have 61% possession.
2. Instead of completing 25 from 41 sets, the game plan should have been to complete 41, and not drop those balls.
3. Instead of telling DCE to continually kick dead, or to kick on the full to the fullback, he should have told him to kick into the in-goal and to find the grass like he normally does.
4. Instead of telling normally reliable handlers like DCE and Jake to repeatedly spill the ball, he should have told them to have ball security.
5. Instead of telling DCE to hit the post with the cross kick that would have won the game, he should have told him to miss the post.
6. Instead of playing Mateo who you said had a shocker, he should have played Lawrence like you suggested. He should have ignored that Lawrence is injured and not yet competitive in NSW Cup - to the point that he didn't even play at all this weekend. And Manly would have been much better off without Mateo's 17 hitups (most by any player), 129 metres (most by any player), and 32 tackles (third highest by any player). Who needs go-forward and defence in this game anyway?
7. He should have played Turbo, not Hiku. He should have ignored the fact that Turbo was ruled unfit with a knee injury and that Hiku was again one of the best for Manly.
8. He shouldn't have picked Hasson who scored the individual try that got Manly back into the game.
Do I need to go on?

It is simplistic to apply your same, predetermined, entirely predictable analysis to every single loss. Things are just a tad more complex than that. When Manly had similar 60% possession stats, following Toov's game plan, they absolutely blew the Broncos and Rabbitohs off the park. To be faced with less than 40% possession, to play as bad as we did, and yet still be one goal post hit away from snatching a win is pretty amazing really.

And THAT, is how you put someone back in their box

 

[Ryan]

You carry on like a little sissy bitch ha ha ))

And again, you add as much value (as usual) as a piece of used toilet roll floating down the waste pipes. Grow up. Try to add value to a debate.

 

[Ryan]

And THAT, is how you put someone back in their box

Huh, I think not...I tabled why I believe our strategy / game plan is flawed.

1. Our wingers are targeted with the long ball consistently.
2. Our post hit metres are far too low.
3. Our ruck defense is atrocious
4. Our metres gained are poor (and I don't think that's quality / it's technique)
5. Our bench management is poor
6. Our team selections seem strange to me
7. Our defensive line is too stationary
8. Our dummy half attacking game leaves a fair bit to be desired
9. Our back up plans (Hooker injured / kicker injured) are non existent.

etc etc etc.

That's game plan and attitude. No box about it. Rex is entitled to his opinion, and put it across fairly well.

Imbeciles like @Wombat Legacy with "You carry on like a little sissy bitch ha ha ))", or people disagreeing, and not debating why are the one's that I feel are in their boxes, incapable of having a robust discussion.

 

[HoldenV8]

Story of our season really. Injuries and a lack of resolve from the team.

You know its a bad day when James Hasson is just about the pick of the forwards.

Our two biggest problems out there were that we were trying to play expansive, dry weather football in the wet. The wet ball and wet hands saw to it that passes were forever going high and/or wide of the mark which makes it hard to build any momentum. The other problem of course was losing Matty Ballin. With him not out there our passing from dummy half was deplorable at times.

At least we know Hodges will get a couple of more games in first grade now. That should make some people happy.......

Other than the Speels I think the only ones happy from this would have been the Penn's. Now the coach they sacked can't get the team into the finals, and if he does it'll be a bigger miracle than it would have been.

The hardest part to take was that the Speels gave us every opportunity to win with the mistakes they kept on making......and we jut weren't good enough to take advantage of that on the day.

 

[lsz]

all the talk about playing wet weather football is only possible if you have the forward pack to do it

 

[sheridanstand78]

Your messiah didn't get the Manly team up in 2009 and 2010, nor the Dogs in 2013.

I agree, its time to move on from Des , what he is doing at the dirty dogs has nothing to do with us. He was a champion coach here and he left and took the coin, in 2 games time we will have a brand new era.

 

[HoldenV8]

I saw something yesterday that worries me going forward, at least in the short term (1-2 years).

We all know that Killer has easily been the best centre in the game for about the last 10 years (including his stint at St Helens). But yesterday it became obvious that he is a big part of the problem with our right edge defence. Generally he is a good defender and rarely falls off tackles, but he keeps on coming in, seemingly not trusting his inside men to do the job. And this often leaves his winger, most times Peta Hiku, in no man's land facing a 2-3 on 1. Or it drags the winger in with him and leaves a big overlap which more often than not these days leads to opposition tries in the corner. Sometimes Killer has managed to save the situation by pulling off a try-saver, sometimes Snake or Peta has been able to clean it up, but most often we're conceding easy tries on our right side.

Up until yesterday, apart from a few, most on here basically blamed Hiku or whoever else played on that wing (Blair(?), Tommy, Wolfman) for bad reads in defence. But really, they can hardly be blamed for those inside them not doing their jobs properly.

This is one of the reasons why I wouldn't mind seeing Barrett playing Killer at 5/8 next year with Peta taking the centre spot and either Tommy or Gutho on the wing. Peta isn't a winger, but he'll be the first choice Kiwi centre for the next 5-6 years and defensively he has proven to be very good in the centres. We need someone like Tommy or Gutho on the wing, players who actually have pace (because right now we would easily have the 2 slowest wingers in the NRL). Both are also ok defensively and both are safe under the high ball. Killer has proven that he can easily play pivot, we won a premiership with him playing in the #6.

Maybe taking him further infield and away from the right edge might actually mean we're better defensively on that side?

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

all the talk about playing wet weather football is only possible if you have the forward pack to do it

But you don't need star forwards to do that.
I thought we really should have dumbed it down and tried to win it with simple straight running and enthusiasm, especially since we have DCE who has the best long kicking game in the league. It was clear from early on that handling would be an issue. Losing Ballin was a huge blow but we already were showing poor signs before that.

 

[Ralphie]

Your messiah didn't get the Manly team up in 2009 and 2010, nor the Dogs in 2013.

Clutching at straws there mate. In 2009 it was a Melbourne team that was $1 million over the salary cap for starters. In 2009 he got a team with no Snake to 5th place. You also seem to completely discount the effect that the death of Glen Hall's unborn baby the night before the game had on the team.
In 2013 he got his team to 6th place. The simple fact is that Hasler has kept his decade long Finals run intact and if he had been coaching I'm sure we would have too.

 

[lsz]

But you don't need star forwards to do that.
I thought we really should have dumbed it down and tried to win it with simple straight running and enthusiasm, especially since we have DCE who has the best long kicking game in the league. It was clear from early on that handling would be an issue. Losing Ballin was a huge blow but we already were showing poor signs before that.

As a team we do not seem overly flexible when it comes to adjusting our in game approach

 

[Simonmyers11]

Everyone is over analysing the game! We had the right troops to win, parra dropped the ball more than enough, we were just not good enough on the day.

The kicking game was off, delivery out of dummy half was very poor at times, the 10m by the ref was appalling, and we lacked enthusiasm from the kick off, maybe thinking it would just happen for them. The wet ball made it hard to play our expansive game, and they just didn't play well in those conditions. It happens, every team (bar the roosters) are losing a few games of late. Even when we were at our absolute best over the past few years, we have dropped winable games at this time of year.

It just is very disappointing to lose a game we desperately needed to win to keep the season going.

 

[HoldenV8]

On a positive note....

Steve Matai's try in the first half was the 50th time he scored a try at Brookvale Oval.

Congratulations Skivy

 

[Orko]

Whilst it would of been nice, if we can't beat Parra we don't deserve to be in the eight! Bring on 2016 hopefully with an attitude change from the players.

 

[Wombat Legacy]

Huh, I think not...I tabled why I believe our strategy / game plan is flawed.

1. Our wingers are targeted with the long ball consistently.
2. Our post hit metres are far too low.
3. Our ruck defense is atrocious
4. Our metres gained are poor (and I don't think that's quality / it's technique)
5. Our bench management is poor
6. Our team selections seem strange to me
7. Our defensive line is too stationary
8. Our dummy half attacking game leaves a fair bit to be desired
9. Our back up plans (Hooker injured / kicker injured) are non existent.

etc etc etc.

That's game plan and attitude. No box about it. Rex is entitled to his opinion, and put it across fairly well.

Imbeciles like @Wombat Legacy with "You carry on like a little sissy bitch ha ha ))", or people disagreeing, and not debating why are the one's that I feel are in their boxes, incapable of having a robust discussion.

You like a robust discussion until someone disagrees with you infantile. I enjoyed discussing Manly's year with some of its ex legends, and not one of them sunk the boot into our players personal integrity as you regularly do gnome. See ya

 

[Mals]

Clutching at straws there mate. In 2009 it was a Melbourne team that was $1 million over the salary cap for starters. In 2009 he got a team with no Snake to 5th place. You also seem to completely discount the effect that the death of Glen Hall's unborn baby the night before the game had on the team.
In 2013 he got his team to 6th place. The simple fact is that Hasler has kept his decade long Finals run intact and if he had been coaching I'm sure we would have too.

Disagree that Hasler would have gotten this squad into the top 8. Forwards win matches. Look at the cattle Tooves has had to work with compare to Hasler at Manly & at the Dogs.

 

[HoldenV8]

Hindsight is such a perfect thing isn't it. We're all geniuses after the fact (myself included).

In hindsight (that word again), moving Leary to dummy half was not going to work in the conditions, and it didn't. I thought at the time and still think Tooves should have moved DCE to hooker/dummy half, Foran to HB, Killer to 5/8 with Peta and MCK as the centre/wing (take your pick as to who played the wing). As Nein's commentators alluded to, DCE has often played dummy half in training with the Qld Origin team so its not like he would have been an Eagle with its wings clipped. And his passing skills far surpass what Leary's are (though admittedly DCE had a shocker yesterday) so theoretically our service would have been better from dummy half with DCE doing the passing.

That would have also left the forwards at somewhat full strength with Leary remaining at lock. Sure they would have lost Matty, but that would have been covered by DCE while MCK would be on the wing or in the centres.

As I said, hindsight is such a perfect thing isn't it.....and even then there is still a chance that we would blow it like we did.