I don't understand this

[Cameron]

Cambo - it probably doesn't make sense because you don't have all the facts?

I don't either - I don't know if Steve Matai is being offered contracts by other clubs or how much they are offering, I don't know how much he wants and under what terms and I don't know how much Manly have available under the cap.

I don't know what offers are on the table for other existing members of the squad who the club wish to retain that will affect any offer to Steve Matai (or Foran or any other player that you care to mention?)

Apart from the cap I don't know what budget the club has for players...I don't know which players they may be talking to from other clubs and what terms they are offering them.

There are a lot of things that I don't know and so I can't speculate or bag our admin staff for who they are or are not signing.

Do I or any member/supporter/journo need to be kept updated on each and every aspect of the above?

It would be nice but not going to happen and for very sound business reasons which I am comfortable with.

We'll know when we know but to keep bagging people is not doing anyone any favours?

Reality check over

hang on a sec vid im not bagging anyone
all i have said at the start of this post is that it doesnt make sense not to tying up two kiwi players when its be stated we are trying to grow the brand in NZ. thats all

 

[DSM5]

You bag Lowe Cambo pretty constantly ala Matas and Ryan and Mick.  Read your posts back to yourself before you send them. 

 

[vidmar]

hang on a sec vid im not bagging anyone
all i have said at the start of this post is that it doesnt make sense not to tying up two kiwi players when its be stated we are trying to grow the brand in NZ. thats all

[/quote]

The deal with Maori TV was done in February and of course not specifically tied to the number of Kiwi players we have - it does however take our brand to around 2 million people in New Zealand
( http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1005/S00002.htm )

Mate, I know you are well intentioned but these repetitive threads speculating on player signings are one thing (and not laying blame with you on this) but the constant criticism of the club and it's player recruitment team by an increasing number of posters is what prompted me to add my thoughts.

Cambo- you can't make the point that it doesn't make sense when you don't know the facts - what if Stevie has been offered $500,000 a season by Russell Crowe - would it make sense for us to offer $550,000? Course not...If we only have $300,000 under the cap and he wants $350k do we offer him $50k in a paper bag? Course not

If we only have $275,000 in the budget and he wants $325K does Des offer him the $275k and a share in merchandise sales if we go good there? Course not?

You are trying to get an answer or make sense without knowing the facts mate...It is not possible

 

[Cameron]

You bag Lowe Cambo pretty constantly ala Matas and Ryan and Mick.  Read your posts back to yourself before you send them.  

your full of **** DSM
but then it was ok for you last year to bag orford at every opportunity, short memory hey

Mate credit where its due hes looking at ways to get more cash to the club, i will say and still say the jury is out for me for now.
But when he does do something good for the club i will be the first to jump on here and give him credit when its due.

Something you never decency to do to a bloke who lead our club to a premiership you hypocrite.

 

[DSM5]

I bagged Ox because I SAW his crap play Cambo....over and over.  He didn't lead our club to a premiership, he played in one.    You bag the admin without knowledge.  Simpleton.     

 

[Cameron]

[quote author=Cambo link=topic=184009.msg274035#msg274035 date=1279002189]

hang on a sec vid im not bagging anyone
all i have said at the start of this post is that it doesnt make sense not to tying up two kiwi players when its be stated we are trying to grow the brand in NZ. thats all

[/quote]

The deal with Maori TV was done in February and of course not specifically tied to the number of Kiwi players we have - it does however take our brand to around 2 million people in New Zealand
( http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1005/S00002.htm )

Mate, I know you are well intentioned but these repetitive threads speculating on player signings are one thing (and not laying blame with you on this) but the constant criticism of the club and it's player recruitment team by an increasing number of posters is what prompted me to add my thoughts.

Cambo- you can't make the point that it doesn't make sense when you don't know the facts - what if Stevie has been offered $500,000 a season by Russell Crowe - would it make sense for us to offer $550,000? Course not...If we only have $300,000 under the cap do we offer him $50k in a paper bag? Course not

If we only have $275,000 in the budget and he wants $325K does Des offer him the $275k and a share in merchandise sales if we go good there? Course not?

You are trying to get an answer or make sense without knowing the facts mate...It is not possible
[/quote]
So im not allowed to ask questions and prompt discussion, its all pretty reasonable stuff, i'm not slandering anyone, im just asking questions and putting thoughts out there. I might be wrong but isn't that what a forum is about.

 

[Ryan]

I bagged Ox because I SAW his crap play Cambo....over and over.  He didn't lead our club to a premiership, he played in one.    You bag the admin without knowledge.  Simpleton.      

LoL - how can YOU call anyone alive a simpleton, when you are the benchmark?

 

[Cameron]

I bagged Ox because I SAW his crap play Cambo....over and over.  He didn't lead our club to a premiership, he played in one.    You bag the admin without knowledge.  Simpleton.      

I'm a simpleton yet you are either still two stupid or arrogant to acknowledge the fact Orford LEAD our club to a premiership (Dally M medal and 3 try assist in a Grand Final is good enough for me).

I will repeat again for a slow rexhunt like yourself
I am not bagging anyone im just asking questions pretty reasonables one i think too.

You are a great advertisement for birth control sir

 

[vidmar]

"So im not allowed to ask questions and prompt discussion, its all pretty reasonable stuff, i'm not slandering anyone, im just asking questions and putting thoughts out there. I might be wrong but isn't that what a forum is about."

Course not - you asked a question and I gave you an answer didn't I?

There are too many at the moment getting fired up about things and posting all manner of derogatory comments about the club when a little common sense and a bit of a think as to why things are done or not done would go a long way to answering things or putting decisions in to perspective?

This is not me being blind to problems at the club whether real or perceived - it's about taking time to try to understand what is going on and why and what can be done to help if I can....I make no apologies for that, maybe I'm too caught up with this whole "true supporters" idiom lol

 

[Cameron]

\"So im not allowed to ask questions and prompt discussion, its all pretty reasonable stuff, i'm not slandering anyone, im just asking questions and putting thoughts out there. I might be wrong but isn't that what a forum is about.\"

Course not - you asked a question and I gave you an answer didn't I?

There are too many at the moment getting fired up about things and posting all manner of derogatory comments about the club when a little common sense and a bit of a think as to why things are done or not done would go a long way to answering things or putting decisions in to perspective?

This is not me being blind to problems at the club whether real or perceived - it's about taking time to try to understand what is going on and why and what can be done to help if I can....I make no apologies for that, maybe I'm too caught up with this whole \"true supporters\" idiom lol

but mate
whats the problem or the harm in discussing this stuff on here a non official forum.
If it was the clubs official forum i would say fair enough but surely we can air opinions and ask questions on here.

I think theres been alot worse posted on here by others compared to the questions i'm putting out there.

Theres alot of bull**** out there at the moment matie and not all of it from the fans, you only have to see that pissweak excuse mark got fed last week trying to make Aaron the scapegoat for lack of information and content coming to the fans.

When members see that sort of bull**** go down then you start to question what else is bull****.

Not having a dig at you, i know you are trying to look after everyone.

 

[Ryan]

or not done

The important part of your rhetoric. This club isn't pro-active like it OPENLY was 18 months ago (especially in regards to being a market leader).

Whether that's true or not is another thing.

Perception is everything Vid, and like it or not, the club looks to be stagnating and / or going backward in peoples eyes.

You can floss that all you like, but this is a business driven by goodwill. Throw all the goodwill away, and take it for granted (as a LOT of people are "believing" is happening at present), you sink.

Now, again, I suggest something positive is released pretty soon on our own shores that make people feel warm and fuzzy about our club. There is too much negativity "perceived" to be swarming and surrounding the club at present.

Surely Lowe can master up something (anything) to put a smile on fans dials??? Or is it just too hard?

 

[lsz]

As an aside whilst it is the opinion of this site i wonder what the average "unconnected" Manly fans feels re stagnation from managment etc

Ideas anyone?

 

[DSM5]

They don't give a damn.  It's on field results that matter to the average fan.  Deadheads like Cambo and Ryan carry the torch for the 'inner turmoil' management rubbish.   

 

[vidmar]

[quote author=vidmar link=topic=184009.msg274099#msg274099 date=1279005855]


or not done

The important part of your rhetoric. This club isn't pro-active like it OPENLY was 18 months ago (especially in regards to being a market leader).

Whether that's true or not is another thing.

Perception is everything Vid, and like it or not, the club looks to be stagnating and / or going backward in peoples eyes.

You can floss that all you like, but this is a business driven by goodwill. Throw all the goodwill away, and take it for granted (as a LOT of people are "believing" is happening at present), you sink.

Now, again, I suggest something positive is released pretty soon on our own shores that make people feel warm and fuzzy about our club. There is too much negativity "perceived" to be swarming and surrounding the club at present.

Surely Lowe can master up something (anything) to put a smile on fans dials??? Or is it just too hard?
[/quote]

OPENLY communicating?
18 months ago?
Like this for example?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25091214-23214,00.html

or this?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/manlys-future-hinging-on-club-fight/story-e6frg7mf-1225700365762

or even this
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/mayer-on-brink-as-board-acts/story-e6frexni-1225697672305

Not sure if I would like the club to be as "warm and fuzzy" as it was then Ryan?

Agree re the good will, hence my post to suggest that people calm down and take a breath rather than continue with this hysteria and tendency to pick fault and be critical of everything and everyone - re-read all of my post to Cambo rather than the 3 words that you quoted (especially the bit here "There are too many at the moment getting fired up about things and posting all manner of derogatory comments about the club when a little common sense and a bit of a think as to why things are done or not done would go a long way to answering things or putting decisions in to perspective?")

I'm waiting for the latest journo expose "Manly fans call for Hasler to be axed" (see post "Des is the weakest link") of "Max is no longer the King of Brookvale" (see post "Max is a clown") or "Manly lose key players to crap management" (read any number of posts including "a pen for the CEO")

Get a grip here...and again, if you don't understand why the club is not going public with what sponsors they are in talks with, they are not opening their accounts to the public or they are not telling the world where they are up to with player signings and negotiations then you are not as smart as you would have us believe?

I've spoken to Graham Lowe about communication with fans (as recently as Saturday morning when I bumped in to him at the ground when I was there to pick up my daughter from practising with the junior sea birds cheer group) and he is well aware of what is being said and communicated by fans so you will need to leave that with him to do as he sees fit - rest assured, he is not the type of person to go public with "anything" just to make us smile?

 

[Matabele]

You are retarded Cambo.  Give up the Lowe bashing.  It pops up in every thread and is monotonous and petty.  Move on ffs.

Maybe that's because every thread is about the terrible state of morass that has overcome the club since Lowe took up residence.

 

[Matabele]

\"So im not allowed to ask questions and prompt discussion, its all pretty reasonable stuff, i'm not slandering anyone, im just asking questions and putting thoughts out there. I might be wrong but isn't that what a forum is about.\"

Course not - you asked a question and I gave you an answer didn't I?

There are too many at the moment getting fired up about things and posting all manner of derogatory comments about the club when a little common sense and a bit of a think as to why things are done or not done would go a long way to answering things or putting decisions in to perspective?

This is not me being blind to problems at the club whether real or perceived - it's about taking time to try to understand what is going on and why and what can be done to help if I can....I make no apologies for that, maybe I'm too caught up with this whole \"true supporters\" idiom lol

  More like you're taking time to gobble up the spin you're being fed.

 

[Guest]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=184009.msg274108#msg274108 date=1279006562]
[quote author=vidmar link=topic=184009.msg274099#msg274099 date=1279005855]


or not done

The important part of your rhetoric. This club isn't pro-active like it OPENLY was 18 months ago (especially in regards to being a market leader).

Whether that's true or not is another thing.

Perception is everything Vid, and like it or not, the club looks to be stagnating and / or going backward in peoples eyes.

You can floss that all you like, but this is a business driven by goodwill. Throw all the goodwill away, and take it for granted (as a LOT of people are "believing" is happening at present), you sink.

Now, again, I suggest something positive is released pretty soon on our own shores that make people feel warm and fuzzy about our club. There is too much negativity "perceived" to be swarming and surrounding the club at present.

Surely Lowe can master up something (anything) to put a smile on fans dials??? Or is it just too hard?
[/quote]

OPENLY communicating?
18 months ago?
Like this for example?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25091214-23214,00.html

or this?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/manlys-future-hinging-on-club-fight/story-e6frg7mf-1225700365762

or even this
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/mayer-on-brink-as-board-acts/story-e6frexni-1225697672305

Not sure if I would like the club to be as "warm and fuzzy" as it was then Ryan?

Agree re the good will, hence my post to suggest that people calm down and take a breath rather than continue with this hysteria and tendency to pick fault and be critical of everything and everyone - re-read all of my post to Cambo rather than the 3 words that you quoted (especially the bit here "There are too many at the moment getting fired up about things and posting all manner of derogatory comments about the club when a little common sense and a bit of a think as to why things are done or not done would go a long way to answering things or putting decisions in to perspective?")

I'm waiting for the latest journo expose "Manly fans call for Hasler to be axed" (see post "Des is the weakest link") of "Max is no longer the King of Brookvale" (see post "Max is a clown") or "Manly lose key players to crap management" (read any number of posts including "a pen for the CEO")

Get a grip here...and again, if you don't understand why the club is not going public with what sponsors they are in talks with, they are not opening their accounts to the public or they are not telling the world where they are up to with player signings and negotiations then you are not as smart as you would have us believe?

I've spoken to Graham Lowe about communication with fans (as recently as Saturday morning when I bumped in to him at the ground when I was there to pick up my daughter from practising with the junior sea birds cheer group) and he is well aware of what is being said and communicated by fans so you will need to leave that with him to do as he sees fit - rest assured, he is not the type of person to go public with "anything" just to make us smile?
[/quote]

I just want genuine and regular updates on injuries, and before you all jump all over me I know we now only have Snake & Wolf out, I'm talking about in future.

 

[MPC75]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=184009.msg274108#msg274108 date=1279006562]
[quote author=vidmar link=topic=184009.msg274099#msg274099 date=1279005855]


or not done

The important part of your rhetoric. This club isn't pro-active like it OPENLY was 18 months ago (especially in regards to being a market leader).

Whether that's true or not is another thing.

Perception is everything Vid, and like it or not, the club looks to be stagnating and / or going backward in peoples eyes.

You can floss that all you like, but this is a business driven by goodwill. Throw all the goodwill away, and take it for granted (as a LOT of people are "believing" is happening at present), you sink.

Now, again, I suggest something positive is released pretty soon on our own shores that make people feel warm and fuzzy about our club. There is too much negativity "perceived" to be swarming and surrounding the club at present.

Surely Lowe can master up something (anything) to put a smile on fans dials??? Or is it just too hard?
[/quote]

OPENLY communicating?
18 months ago?
Like this for example?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25091214-23214,00.html

or this?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/manlys-future-hinging-on-club-fight/story-e6frg7mf-1225700365762

or even this
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/mayer-on-brink-as-board-acts/story-e6frexni-1225697672305

Not sure if I would like the club to be as "warm and fuzzy" as it was then Ryan?

Agree re the good will, hence my post to suggest that people calm down and take a breath rather than continue with this hysteria and tendency to pick fault and be critical of everything and everyone - re-read all of my post to Cambo rather than the 3 words that you quoted (especially the bit here "There are too many at the moment getting fired up about things and posting all manner of derogatory comments about the club when a little common sense and a bit of a think as to why things are done or not done would go a long way to answering things or putting decisions in to perspective?")

I'm waiting for the latest journo expose "Manly fans call for Hasler to be axed" (see post "Des is the weakest link") of "Max is no longer the King of Brookvale" (see post "Max is a clown") or "Manly lose key players to crap management" (read any number of posts including "a pen for the CEO")

Get a grip here...and again, if you don't understand why the club is not going public with what sponsors they are in talks with, they are not opening their accounts to the public or they are not telling the world where they are up to with player signings and negotiations then you are not as smart as you would have us believe?

I've spoken to Graham Lowe about communication with fans (as recently as Saturday morning when I bumped in to him at the ground when I was there to pick up my daughter from practising with the junior sea birds cheer group) and he is well aware of what is being said and communicated by fans so you will need to leave that with him to do as he sees fit - rest assured, he is not the type of person to go public with "anything" just to make us smile?
[/quote]

In my short time on this forum, this is easily the best post I have seen so far. Sanity at last. Thanks Vidmar

 

[Ryan]

They don't give a damn.  It's on field results that matter to the average fan.  Deadheads like Cambo and Ryan carry the torch for the 'inner turmoil' management rubbish.    

As are 80% of the posters right now.
"Deadheads"......LoL......thanks professor.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=184009.msg274108#msg274108 date=1279006562]
[quote author=vidmar link=topic=184009.msg274099#msg274099 date=1279005855]


or not done

The important part of your rhetoric. This club isn't pro-active like it OPENLY was 18 months ago (especially in regards to being a market leader).

Whether that's true or not is another thing.

Perception is everything Vid, and like it or not, the club looks to be stagnating and / or going backward in peoples eyes.

You can floss that all you like, but this is a business driven by goodwill. Throw all the goodwill away, and take it for granted (as a LOT of people are "believing" is happening at present), you sink.

Now, again, I suggest something positive is released pretty soon on our own shores that make people feel warm and fuzzy about our club. There is too much negativity "perceived" to be swarming and surrounding the club at present.

Surely Lowe can master up something (anything) to put a smile on fans dials??? Or is it just too hard?
[/quote]

OPENLY communicating?
18 months ago?
Like this for example?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25091214-23214,00.html

or this?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/manlys-future-hinging-on-club-fight/story-e6frg7mf-1225700365762

or even this
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/mayer-on-brink-as-board-acts/story-e6frexni-1225697672305

Not sure if I would like the club to be as "warm and fuzzy" as it was then Ryan?

Agree re the good will, hence my post to suggest that people calm down and take a breath rather than continue with this hysteria and tendency to pick fault and be critical of everything and everyone - re-read all of my post to Cambo rather than the 3 words that you quoted (especially the bit here "There are too many at the moment getting fired up about things and posting all manner of derogatory comments about the club when a little common sense and a bit of a think as to why things are done or not done would go a long way to answering things or putting decisions in to perspective?")

I'm waiting for the latest journo expose "Manly fans call for Hasler to be axed" (see post "Des is the weakest link") of "Max is no longer the King of Brookvale" (see post "Max is a clown") or "Manly lose key players to crap management" (read any number of posts including "a pen for the CEO")

Get a grip here...and again, if you don't understand why the club is not going public with what sponsors they are in talks with, they are not opening their accounts to the public or they are not telling the world where they are up to with player signings and negotiations then you are not as smart as you would have us believe?

I've spoken to Graham Lowe about communication with fans (as recently as Saturday morning when I bumped in to him at the ground when I was there to pick up my daughter from practising with the junior sea birds cheer group) and he is well aware of what is being said and communicated by fans so you will need to leave that with him to do as he sees fit - rest assured, he is not the type of person to go public with "anything" just to make us smile?
[/quote]

Well Vid, the way I'm reading it, he does. He actually does. Change doesn't happen on its own. It's created.

I'd MUCH rather come on here, to hear about all the wonderful things the club is doing to move us forward as leaders both on and off the park.

I'll ask you this. If you owned your own business, and had a website dedicated to your customers - and your customers gave you the feedback as being read/written on this site, through the media and elsewhere, would you be a concerned business owner?

Not caring, because he is ABOVE giving the fans anything to smile about in my books is paramount with business negligence.

I do appreciate your comments, and take them on board (and note I never try and play the man, except for if your DSM5). I'm just saying as a fan that loves this team, we NEEEED something positive to latch onto.

If Zorba / Lowe / Delmege & co. can't / don't / won't / couldn't be bothered etc find ANYTHING to make people feel "the love" so to speak, well maybe the board should be pushing for people that CAN make people that way.

You never know.....membership numbers may even flourish.

Now, I will attach an article below, that shows how a CEO of an organization communicated with fans of a club (in a VERY similar position to ours), just much, much bigger, and more expensive (and really, I don't think Lowe has the NOUSE to do something like this), and this is where I'm coming from (and I mean no disrespect to anyone) - it's long, but look at the passion, heart and honesty - it's an example of CONNECTION.


Paige: Secretive Lacroix drops his guard

The dark, steely eyes have softened somewhat. His resolve has not. Pierre Lacroix refuses to blink.

"It was my mess. I caused it. I have no excuses. But our people, our organization, our owner, our players and I will clean it up.

"If the fans of the Avalanche will be as passionate as they were and have just a little patience, as president of this company, I promise them what they deserve" — Lacroix paused to bang on a nearby desk, then pounded on the door behind his chair — "knock on wood, very soon we will be back on the top of hockey. We have only one goal: Stanley Cup."

Strong words from a man weakened physically, mentally and emotionally the past four months by two surgeries, life-threatening complications, weeks immobile in bed and the hospital swallowing mind-dulling painkillers, the firings of several of his closest friends with the Avalanche, the retirement of the franchise's greatest player and lingering repulsive memories of the worst season in the club's history in Denver.

"We lost our way of doing business. We try to patch things. We lost our fans. It didn't work. We are scratching our way back. Our new recipe is the same as our old recipe."

That recipe produced two National Hockey League championships, a record nine consecutive division titles, six appearances in the Western Conference finals, 11 straight trips to the postseason, 91 playoff victories from 1996-2006, an unrivaled rivalry with the Detroit Red Wings and the longest sellout streak ever in the league (487 games).

Lacroix says his recipe was simple in 1994, no more complex 15 years later: Two great young centers and a great goalie, surrounded by a mix of young and experienced complementary players (with speed on offense and toughness on defense); a young, smart, rising head coach, balanced by excellent, specialized assistants; a solid scouting staff; and a hard-hat executive corps harmonizing.

Doesn't seem so simple, but La- croix's recipe was right the first time.

"If we can have 75 percent of that success now, the Avalanche will be outstanding for another 10-12 years," Lacroix said in his office at the Avalanche training facility near Centennial Airport.

Then, in Quebec City, Lacroix, a neophyte general manager (after selling the player representation company he owned since he was in his early 20s) had Joe Sakic and Peter Forsberg, and "I worked for a year and a half to get my goalie," Patrick Roy. He hired Marc Crawford, an unlikely and unliked choice, as coach and added assistants Joel Quenneville and Jacques Martin — and hired a minor-league coach, Bob Hartley.

A season later, in Denver, the Avalanche won the Stanley Cup.

Time for new identity

Now the Avs have centers Paul Stastny and Matt Duchene, freshly signed goalie Craig Anderson and, Lacroix boasts, two promising teenaged goaltenders. The Avalanche promoted Lake Erie coach Joe Sacco, who was joined by Steve Konowalchuk and former Avs Sylvain Lefebvre and Adam Deadmarsh (who will serve as video coordinator).

The club dumped some high-salaried veteran players and could have a mix of youth — Ryan Stoa (who will remind you of Uwe Krupp) and Kevin Shattenkirk — and elders — Adam Foote and Milan Hejduk.

There is one significant change in the recipe. The Avalanche will be ruled by Kaliya — a five-headed serpent of Hindu mythology.

Greg Sherman has been named general manager, but he will share responsibilities, decision-making and the positions of power with Craig Billington, Brad Smith, Eric Lacroix (Pierre's son and former Avs player) and Lacroix himself, who is back in control this summer and will serve as a "24-7 advisor" and live in Denver again, he says, during the season.

And there's Stan Kroenke, owner.

"Mr. Kroenke is totally committed to doing whatever we need to get us back where we belong. When he and I talked at the end of the season, we decided I should return and make the necessary changes," Pierre Lacroix said.

Lacroix back in control

Lacroix went into quasi-retirement in the desert after 11 seasons as president/general manager and turned the day-to-day operations over to Francois Giguere, who occasionally called Lacroix and more than occasionally made mistakes.

Last season the Avalanche was last in the Western Conference. The team didn't reach the playoffs for the second time since Lacroix stepped aside.

The day after the season he fired Giguere.

"I called in our board for a meeting and laid out all our plans for moving in a new direction. I told everybody — and we have 70-75 percent of our staff together for 10 years — we would start making moves in 10-12 days after my (knee replacement) surgery. We left with a group fist-pump, we were so excited," said Lacroix in his first major interview since assuming control again.

Lacroix seems more vulnerable, more relaxed, more aware of his mortality.

"I passed by my warranty date, but I've got a lot more to accomplish. I was the agent for players who became Hall of Famers and won Stanley Cups, but I wanted to have a Stanley Cup of my own," he said.

He has two — and has been nominated for, and likely will be voted into, the Pro Hockey Hall of Fame.

Roy saga unpleasant time

Lacroix's best-laid plan for the offseason went haywire.

First, he called Patrick Roy to explore his ex-client/goalie's interest in joining the Avalanche in some capacity.

"Patrick had been away for six years. I thought he was the right person to get the franchise back on track," Lacroix said. "I asked if he would meet with me here while I was rehabbing (the left knee) to talk in general conversation.

"I should have known that he would be recognized everywhere, especially after he ate at John Elway's (restaurant) with John. Everybody was speculating Patrick would be coach, and I should have told Tony (Granato, who was still the coach at that point).

"Patrick and I talked about him running the team as president, maybe general manager, maybe coach. He had done those jobs very successfully in Quebec (with the junior league Remparts). I told him not to make rush decisions, to take two weeks, and we would talk again."

The following day, Lacroix returned for a second surgery. The knee was fine, but the rest of his leg, as well as his hip, was swollen with blood clots that could have possibly risen to his heart. The doctor purposely broke Lacroix's left leg, and five IV's were placed in his body.

He was sentenced to bed, told not to move and ordered to take pain medication.

The Avalanche was put on hold at a critical juncture.

"All my fault," Lacroix said. "I should have prepared for what could happen to me post-surgery, but I didn't. And I let the organization down."

When Roy called back, Lacroix was wracked with pain, and it got worse.

"Patrick told me he wanted to stay in Quebec with his family. That was the end of that," Lacroix said.

Mastering a major shakeup

On June 4, Lacroix, taking a break from his medication to think clearly, issued a statement that Granato, three assistants, the assistant GM and Lacroix's best friend in the organization, Michel Goulet, and the video coordinator had been fired.

Pierre cried. It was not the first or last time the powerful man would weep during the summer.

Out of the hospital and out of life-threatening danger, Lacroix was a prisoner in his Cherry Creek home.

"I had a machine in bed with me to rehabilitate my leg," he said.

Lacroix is feeling much better. He lost 15 pounds — "what a diet, lose 15 pounds lying in bed" — and turns 61 next month.

At a meeting with his remaining executive staff, Lacroix surprisingly named assistant GM Sherman to the top spot. Billington, VP of hockey operations, added the title of assistant GM; Smith was named director of personnel; and Eric Lacroix was rehired as director of hockey operations.

"The others said to me Eric should be brought back. I let them make the decision. That was not mine to make. He has been involved in every phase of the game: player, video coach, coach of a minor-league team, scout and owner of a minor-league team. He has prepared very well. This is not because of his father, but I am proud of him as his father," Pierre said.

The Avs' restructured management and the scouts agreed they wanted to use the third pick in the draft for Duchene — Lacroix's "second center" in his recipe. They wanted to ship out expensive vets, including Ryan Smyth. They wanted to get a good goalie.

"Craig (Anderson) got Florida to one game of the playoffs last season, and that, honestly, wasn't a very good team," Pierre said. "We believe he can really help us as we develop a couple of kids that could be special."

The Avs wanted to get younger and could now have as many as a dozen players 25 or under. And Lacroix wanted a coach in the tradition of Crawford and Hartley. "The best up-and-coming minor-league coach was in our system, Joe Sacco," Lacroix said.

Sakic makes his decision

Two weeks ago Sakic called and asked to visit.

"He told me he was ready to retire as a player, but he wanted to hold off the announcement until I could enjoy the press conference," Pierre said. "After he left I told my wife that's the kind of man Joe Sakic is. He was worried more about me."

Lacroix cried — and again on the dais Thursday as Joe read his retirement statement. Sakic said he someday wants to get into management, "and I will follow Pierre around to find out as much as I can."

"I didn't know Joe wants to be in management, but I'm having lunch with him soon and will tell him there always is a place waiting for him," Lacroix said. "I think the best thing for him to do is take some time away, enjoy his family and his life after 20-plus years, and then, if he wants, he can be a great hockey executive."

Lacroix had one other task. He met with Giguere personally at season's end, but had not talked with the rest of the men fired.

"I have spoken with each one and apologized for what happened and how it happened," he said.

Lacroix will work daily in his office up to the season, serving as one head of Kaliya — a commanding head. He will stay in Denver as a leader to make certain the recipe is followed.

Pierre's eyes have it. Let the rest of the NHL blink . . . again.