Is NOW the time to play Rookies?

[maxta]

exactly right.

We have blooded a few throughout the year (Wright, Paseka, Sipley and about to be Fainu) but already have the least experienced squad in the NRL and experience is one of the major things hurting us right now.

Chuck them all in and you get a 3 year wooden spoon bender like Newcastle.

I respect your opinion and often see the experience importance for many teams.
Just feel these are winning youngsters who could actually make an impact, as Tom Wright against Illawarra, who offered far more than many of his more experienced counter parts.
Young Ponga is labelled by many as close to the best player in the game now (not saying they are as good but have potential) and with the speed of the modern game, its not like the old days when the youngsters come in and got busted up physically by the opposition hitmen.....well not to that degree.
I certainly see both sides, but my only difference of opinion is I feel the results would actually be better with these youngsters, who in fact would make it a stronger side.

 

[TimmyQ]

Our season is already a trainwreck. I dont think many fans would mind if we get pumped in a few games trialling newbies but also unearth some genuine talent at the same time. Weed out the good from the bad i say. Only problem is if TB bloods heaps of fellas and we get the spoon..he then has ANOTHER excuse to add to the list as to why he deserves to coach us for a few years more. Double edged sword for mine.

 

[Paw93]

Our season is already a trainwreck. I dont think many fans would mind if we get pumped in a few games trialling newbies but also unearth some genuine talent at the same time. Weed out the good from the bad i say. Only problem is if TB bloods heaps of fellas and we get the spoon..he then has ANOTHER excuse to add to the list as to why he deserves to coach us for a few years more. Double edged sword for mine.

As a fan you might not mind but what about the mentality of a 20 year old under pressure to impress his coach? What happens when he makes a mistake and the other team score on the back of it? No point in blooding young players if they're just going to get demoralised after a tough loss. BK was like that last year and to his credit, he was able to come back stronger than before but not all young players have that resolve.

Not having a go at you but I'd think a full time NRL coach would take more than just FG experience into account when developing young players.

 

[Bearfax]

As a fan you might not mind but what about the mentality of a 20 year old under pressure to impress his coach? What happens when he makes a mistake and the other team score on the back of it? No point in blooding young players if they're just going to get demoralised after a tough loss. BK was like that last year and to his credit, he was able to come back stronger than before but not all young players have that resolve.

Not having a go at you but I'd think a full time NRL coach would take more than just FG experience into account when developing young players.

That's what young players have to face all the time. Its part of the growth process. I would rather have a player with skill and youth on the field and make a few mistakes, than leave him in reserves indefinitely. If you are worried that they may make a mistake, then how do they learn. Cant mollycoddle them indefinitely. That's how we all learn...by making mistakes. Further there are other clubs that will grab them quickly if Manly doesn't utilise them. Canterbury have made it quite plain they are on a major youth search to offset their salary cap issues. Do you think they would hesitate for one moment to grab players like Tom Wright, Anderson and Fainu and have them in first grade the following week.

 

[Woodsie]

That's what young players have to face all the time. Its part of the growth process. I would rather have a player with skill and youth on the field and make a few mistakes, than leave him in reserves indefinitely. If you are worried that they may make a mistake, then how do they learn. Cant mollycoddle them indefinitely. That's how we all learn...by making mistakes. Further there are other clubs that will grab them quickly if Manly doesn't utilise them. Canterbury have made it quite plain they are on a major youth search to offset their salary cap issues. Do you think they would hesitate for one moment to grab players like Tom Wright, Anderson and Fainu and have them in first grade the following week.

Parker debuted at 19 .... and has had 3 major injuries and played only about 10 games in 2 seasons ..
Suli debuted at 18 ... and is now in his 3rd club in a year ...
Kelly debuted at 20 ..... and almost suffered career ending loss of form and confidence ... thank goodness he is a tough one ...
Tom Turbo debuted at 19 .... He was ready ... but still struggles in some areas ...
Bainbridge debuted at 19 .... never to be seen again .....
Tom Wright debuted at 20 ......

Bear, I know you want your cubs given their opportunities ... so do I .... but I have faith that Baz has Tom's best interests at heart with his slowly slowly approach .....

 

[Bearfax]

Parker debuted at 19 .... and has had 3 major injuries and played only about 10 games in 2 seasons ..
Suli debuted at 18 ... and is now in his 3rd club in a year ...
Kelly debuted at 20 ..... and almost suffered career ending loss of form and confidence ... thank goodness he is a tough one ...
Tom Turbo debuted at 19 .... He was ready ... but still struggles in some areas ...
Bainbridge debuted at 19 .... never to be seen again .....
Tom Wright debuted at 20 ......

Bear, I know you want your cubs given their opportunities ... so do I .... but I have faith that Baz has Tom's best interests at heart with his slowly slowly approach .....

Maybe so Woodsie. But your examples are what young players have to go through. Some will succeed, others fail, some will go back to reserves for a bit, some will have bad injuries. But that's life and there are just as many who have come through successfully...Ponga and Cleary obvious mentions. As for the players you've nominated would you have kept Kelly, Tom T, Parker or even Suli back from starting in first grade. Look at Ramien at Cronulla, a young Manly junior and now producing the goods at Cronulla. JWH a Manly junior quickly snapped up and put in firsts by SC. Gutherson at Parra. Knight at Canberra. Young players Manly fiddled around with now successful at other clubs because they were given the chance.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Bring em in, one each game , nothing to lose at this stage!!

 

[maxta]

I think young forwards maybe in for a tougher initiation and can get belted out both physically & mentally by the opposition enforcers.
Young talented backs seem to do well and Wright and Anderson are in that basket imo....Wright already has proven quality against a Top NRL side....Funa also on the cusp I think.
Nothing worse than to see them get the opportunity at another club and shred it in 2019, after not getting an opportunity behind some of these experienced players who add little anyway.
Looking at our team I can see the argument of youngsters already there, but when I continue reading some of the experienced players, that add little excitement or value I think it evens out....as in the extra speed & talent and/ a Huge thing we need - Enthusiasm / Energy....that may actually improve results....though I see a win this Saturday over Penrith.

 

[mickqld]

Turbo, Parker , Kelly, Tom Wright, Tanginoa, Paseka, Sipley, Fainu, Gosjiewski, not enough juniors for us all ????
Youngest squad in the comp. Give it time but we need the right coach.

 

[Bearfax]

I think young forwards maybe in for a tougher initiation and can get belted out both physically & mentally by the opposition enforcers.
Young talented backs seem to do well and Wright and Anderson are in that basket imo....Wright already has proven quality against a Top NRL side....Funa also on the cusp I think.
Nothing worse than to see them get the opportunity at another club and shred it in 2019, after not getting an opportunity behind some of these experienced players who add little anyway.
Looking at our team I can see the argument of youngsters already there, but when I continue reading some of the experienced players, that add little excitement or value I think it evens out....as in the extra speed & talent and/ a Huge thing we need - Enthusiasm / Energy....that may actually improve results....though I see a win this Saturday over Penrith.

yes good point. Forwards usually find the going tougher and develop later than backs. Mind you Watmough was playing first grade when he was still only 18

 

[maxta]

yes good point. Forwards usually find the going tougher and develop later than backs. Mind you Watmough was playing first grade when he was still only 18

Good call.
Wish we could replicate him.....exactly the rugged energetic forward to lift this team.
May have pi**ed plenty of with his antics when he left, but Watmough was a ball of power and energy that gave plenty every week for the club....the youngsters would thrive around his passion and winning attitude.

 

[rifraff]

Look at Ramien at Cronulla, a young Manly junior and now producing the goods at Cronulla. JWH a Manly junior quickly snapped up and put in firsts by SC. Gutherson at Parra. Knight at CanbeTh

Not the best examples.. Who did we have when we let Ramien go. He still hasn't proved anything yet..JWH? we still went ok when we lost him. How much would you pay Gutho to play on the wing when we had Turbo coming through..Knight hasn't done anything yet and hasn't cemented a first grade spot three years after he left....

Four players over 10 or so years who we maybe might have kept isn't a good arguement.

 

[Sue]

Parker debuted at 19 .... and has had 3 major injuries and played only about 10 games in 2 seasons ..
Suli debuted at 18 ... and is now in his 3rd club in a year ...
Kelly debuted at 20 ..... and almost suffered career ending loss of form and confidence ... thank goodness he is a tough one ...
Tom Turbo debuted at 19 .... He was ready ... but still struggles in some areas ...
Bainbridge debuted at 19 .... never to be seen again .....
Tom Wright debuted at 20 ......

Bear, I know you want your cubs given their opportunities ... so do I .... but I have faith that Baz has Tom's best interests at heart with his slowly slowly approach .....

Trouble is it’s not Tom Wright’s interest he is employed to look after . His job is to win football games for the Manly Sea Eagles!!not molycoddle a bloke who is built like a f...ing train and speed to burn.Have you seen this guy in the flesh!

Il tell you another way to mess with a blokes confidence. Drop him after scoring one of the individual tries of the year. Drop him for Matt Wright. Please. All this rubbish that a couple of losses will ruin a players confidence. These guys are playing for possible huge contacts, a lot of their desire is personal.Do yiu really think these guys go home and cry if they lose. Ever watch them laughing and smiling after games! It’s every man for himself now and it’s the best coaches who can pull them together and not end up a bickering rabble.If he doesn’t play on the weekend he is a bigger fool than even I had him pegged for.

The crazy part is he can’t wait to pick Parker when he is fit and the kid is a gold plated reserve grader and always will be despite his effort.He would not tie Wright’s bootlaces and never will.

In any case why should anyone put any credence in his judgement when everything else under his control is a shambles...and anyone who thinks this whole mess ain’t going to get worse is delusional .

How bad do this mob have to get before this bloke is outed as the fraud he is. I’m embarrassed to watch them play at the moment. If anyone can give me a single reason for that kicking into touch rubbish id love to hear it.No game plan but more importantly zero desire. And that’s what coaches do.This bloke wants to get sacked. Give him his wish.

 

[Woodsie]

Maybe so Woodsie. But your examples are what young players have to go through. Some will succeed, others fail, some will go back to reserves for a bit, some will have bad injuries. But that's life and there are just as many who have come through successfully...Ponga and Cleary obvious mentions. As for the players you've nominated would you have kept Kelly, Tom T, Parker or even Suli back from starting in first grade. Look at Ramien at Cronulla, a young Manly junior and now producing the goods at Cronulla. JWH a Manly junior quickly snapped up and put in firsts by SC. Gutherson at Parra. Knight at Canberra. Young players Manly fiddled around with now successful at other clubs because they were given the chance.

They are all different .... and they all mature at different ages. For every Ramien or Toovey there are many damaged beyond repair ...

and yes the trials of !st grade is what young blokes have to go through ... but to not take into consideration both their physical and (more importantly) .. mental maturity would be gross incompetence ....

... and yes, I think Kelly was not ready for firsts .... but the loss of Matai and Snake forced the issue ..... it was lucky he wasn't lost, only his character got him through last year. Do you think playing first at 18 has been good for Suli mentally. Would Bainbridge still be with us given another year to develop?

Your Knight at Canberra took 2 years until his 2nd !st grade game.

My opinion is that the coaching staff (who speak to him 6 days a week) have had their concerns for Tom Wright ... with his game, his mental toughness and his physicality ..... they have given him the time he needs ... this year he has had about 10 games against men, put on about 3kg's ... is he ready, maybe, I hope so .... but if not .... I am happy for them to bring him on at his pace .... we want him there for the next 10 years ..

 

[Woodsie]

Trouble is it’s not Tom Wright’s interest he is employed to look after . His job is to win football games for the Manly Sea Eagles!!not molycoddle a bloke who is built like a f...ing train and speed to burn.Have you seen this guy in the flesh!

Il tell you another way to mess with a blokes confidence. Drop him after scoring one of the individual tries of the year. Drop him for Matt Wright. Please. All this rubbish that a couple of losses will ruin a players confidence. These guys are playing for possible huge contacts, a lot of their desire is personal.Do yiu really think these guys go home and cry if they lose. Ever watch them laughing and smiling after games! It’s every man for himself now and it’s the best coaches who can pull them together and not end up a bickering rabble.If he doesn’t play on the weekend he is a bigger fool than even I had him pegged for.

The crazy part is he can’t wait to pick Parker when he is fit and the kid is a gold plated reserve grader and always will be despite his effort.He would not tie Wright’s bootlaces and never will.

In any case why should anyone put any credence in his judgement when everything else under his control is a shambles...and anyone who thinks this whole mess ain’t going to get worse is delusional .

How bad do this mob have to get before this bloke is outed as the fraud he is. I’m embarrassed to watch them play at the moment. If anyone can give me a single reason for that kicking into touch rubbish id love to hear it.No game plan but more importantly zero desire. And that’s what coaches do.This bloke wants to get sacked. Give him his wish.

...... you forgot no second kicker and no Parcell ....

 

[manly al]

Agree that J W H and Gutho are not not good examples of juniors not being given a go and then released , both were in a situation where they were certainly given an opportunity with Manly but there was just considered more preferred players already in their respective positions ,along with better offers to leave and combined with cap issues . Ramien and Knight had their own specific situations . Seems with Tom Wright now, that there has been a choice between Suli , Parker or himself to include for two outside back positions and with a preference to see how Suli can still progress as a centre . Personally again would think it better to start with Tom Wright as a 5 / 8 , Suli wing and Parker as a bench utility . The only other consideration now may be to use Tom Wright in a S O O Ponga type role as a roving back rower but this would be not really suited to Jake"s present role then . Guess it depends on how Suli continues to go in the centres but really not serving much purpose having Tom Wright as an 18 th man on a regular basis and then not playing much footy at all , Can only be in Manly "s short and long term interests to have Tom Wright in the top 17 somewhere in approaching games .

 

[Bearfax]

Not the best examples.. Who did we have when we let Ramien go. He still hasn't proved anything yet..JWH? we still went ok when we lost him. How much would you pay Gutho to play on the wing when we had Turbo coming through..Knight hasn't done anything yet and hasn't cemented a first grade spot three years after he left....

Four players over 10 or so years who we maybe might have kept isn't a good arguement.

They were mere examples. I look at many of the players we've bought from outside and they certainly aren't as good as that group. And I'm not saying players immediately become stars. I'm saying the sooner you get them in there, the sooner they develop their skills against the best. Keep them in reserves and they will continue to play like reserves. I had this same argument on Roar regarding batsmen many years ago who needed to be brought into the test side and were being ignored with suggestions they weren't up to standard. The four I picked before they reached test standard were Smith, Warner, Khawaja and Phil Hughes. I was hounded down then...of course until they were promoted. You leave them too long in reserves and they get reserves mentality and don't improve. Get them in firsts and they then know what is expected of them. Some will fail, some will succeed, some may have to go back into reserves for a bit longer, but the experience is essential in development. That's the name of the game.

 

[rifraff]

I have seen you on the roar and you were my favorite poster cause you stuck up for Manly. Have never posted there.

Mere examples or not I don't think they were good ones.

 

[Bearfax]

They are all different .... and they all mature at different ages. For every Ramien or Toovey there are many damaged beyond repair ...

and yes the trials of !st grade is what young blokes have to go through ... but to not take into consideration both their physical and (more importantly) .. mental maturity would be gross incompetence ....

... and yes, I think Kelly was not ready for firsts .... but the loss of Matai and Snake forced the issue ..... it was lucky he wasn't lost, only his character got him through last year. Do you think playing first at 18 has been good for Suli mentally. Would Bainbridge still be with us given another year to develop?

Your Knight at Canberra took 2 years until his 2nd !st grade game.

My opinion is that the coaching staff (who speak to him 6 days a week) have had their concerns for Tom Wright ... with his game, his mental toughness and his physicality ..... they have given him the time he needs ... this year he has had about 10 games against men, put on about 3kg's ... is he ready, maybe, I hope so .... but if not .... I am happy for them to bring him on at his pace .... we want him there for the next 10 years ..

Woodsie I'm not disputing that there are those that wont make it and those that will. And it may take time for them to develop, like Knight. But do you think his experience and the experience of others promoted when young to firsts was a negative for them? Absolutely not. It gave them the taste they needed. Knight fell for a time...for other reasons mind you...but he knew what first grade meant after a taste. Players raise to the next level when promoted. Just looking at Tom Wright in the only two games he has played in firsts. On both occasions he showed a game superior to what he has been showing in reserves. Players play to the level they are selected in. Some cant reach the higher level at all, some take time, some fit like a glove. Watching Tom Wright you could see he was made for first grade. He's got a lot to learn but his enthusiasm showed he wanted to be there. Send him back to reserves now is just wasting his talent.

 

[ricardo]

Turbo, Parker , Kelly, Tom Wright, Tanginoa, Paseka, Sipley, Fainu, Gosjiewski, not enough juniors for us all ????
Youngest squad in the comp. Give it time but we need the right coach.

Exactly what I was thinking.