Lame - Orford doesn't do the press conference

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Thanks for that Harmless.  Firstly with the input of the Manly crowd at the game.  You're being disingenuous.  The Manly fans were/are fantastic.  Sure they are passionate and point out errors in our play when it's deserved, but that's not indicative of a crappy attitude but frustration and passion combined.  Our expectations are high.  Ox's dropout improved for that game.....  OK.....I'll accept that from now on all his dropouts will go at least 45 metres, just for you.  No one is calling for a complete rework of the team as you infer, rather a replacement or two of players underperforming.  Anyway, come along to Brookie on Saturday and sing along with us all and yell and scream with the best supporters in the game.       
 
DSM5 link said:
'Trying to hard'?  wtf does that mean?  The guy is just out of form.  If he was anybody else in the team he'd be rested or in the Qld Cup team.  We do have backup halves.  We have back up front rowers as well.  We don't have to use Hall or Orford.   

he is trying to inject himself if the game too much. Trying to push the pass instead of letting the pass just happen. Trying to always kick for the right corner. We don't have to use Orford, but he is the best chance of us going to back to back this late in the season.
 
DSM5 link said:
Thanks for that Harmless.  Firstly with the input of the Manly crowd at the game.  You're being disingenuous.  The Manly fans were/are fantastic.  Sure they are passionate and point out errors in our play when it's deserved, but that's not indicative of a crappy attitude but frustration and passion combined.  Our expectations are high.  Ox's dropout improved for that game.....  OK.....I'll accept that from now on all his dropouts will go at least 45 metres, just for you.  No one is calling for a complete rework of the team as you infer, rather a replacement or two of players underperforming.  Anyway, come along to Brookie on Saturday and sing along with us all and yell and scream with the best supporters in the game.       
So harmless is being "disingenuous", DSM?  You know that for absolute certain? 

And the Manly fans near Harmless only "point out errors in our play when it's deserved"? You know that for absolute certain too? 

And your explanation for their actions was "Our expectations are high".  So you personally identify with every Manly fan who shouts abuse at Manly players, whatever the abuse?  And you don't identify with the Manly fans who don't shout abuse, or who criticise abusive Manly fans in any way?
 
Garts link said:
[quote author=KaZa link=topic=181254.msg235098#msg235098 date=1249392039]
[quote author=Garts link=topic=181254.msg235036#msg235036 date=1249370624]
If you think we would be better off with someone else at half you are seriously brain damaged.  And by someone else I mean that is already on our books.

I understand the point of not re-signing him for big cash but dumping him with no viable solution is just stupid, extrememly stupid. 

No its my opinion.  I think Orford is beyond his best and is on a HUGE decline.. we have Daly Evans and Hodkinson or even Foran who could do a job. You dont know if they can step up to it or not.. so its not stupid. However Orford has cost us so many games this season with stupid decisions and his kicking game is poor.

Obviously if we dump him we would have to get someone else. But as to who? thats not my job.. Crusher and Co should have a viable option already. If your enjoying his performances this year then.. lucky you for not updating your glass lenses.
[/quote]

Your opinion is wrong :) Besides I cant take anything you say about Orford seriously when you still have a special tissue with Monas name on it. 
[/quote]

He left years ago. Get over it.

Im judging Orford over this years performances.. and hes been woeful.. barring a few good plays here and there, he has not been good enough for a new contract. Bring in a new half back next year and give the captaincy to Choc or Stewart (either one)
 
KaZa link said:
[quote author=Garts link=topic=181254.msg235116#msg235116 date=1249424386]
[quote author=KaZa link=topic=181254.msg235098#msg235098 date=1249392039]
[quote author=Garts link=topic=181254.msg235036#msg235036 date=1249370624]
If you think we would be better off with someone else at half you are seriously brain damaged.  And by someone else I mean that is already on our books.

I understand the point of not re-signing him for big cash but dumping him with no viable solution is just stupid, extrememly stupid. 

No its my opinion.  I think Orford is beyond his best and is on a HUGE decline.. we have Daly Evans and Hodkinson or even Foran who could do a job. You dont know if they can step up to it or not.. so its not stupid. However Orford has cost us so many games this season with stupid decisions and his kicking game is poor.

Obviously if we dump him we would have to get someone else. But as to who? thats not my job.. Crusher and Co should have a viable option already. If your enjoying his performances this year then.. lucky you for not updating your glass lenses.
[/quote]

Your opinion is wrong :) Besides I cant take anything you say about Orford seriously when you still have a special tissue with Monas name on it. 
[/quote]

He left years ago. Get over it.

Im judging Orford over this years performances.. and hes been woeful.. barring a few good plays here and there, he has not been good enough for a new contract. Bring in a new half back next year and give the captaincy to Choc or Stewart (either one)
[/quote]

You have still not got over it :)

Like I said.  I have no issue if Des does that all I am saying it is dumb to drop him now as we will be worse off for the rest of the year and no chance of going back to back. 
 
I saw a bit of Monas on the "classic match" last night.

Lets just say it was one of the better halfback performances I've seen from a Manly player this year. Kicks were finding gaps, not picking out the best returners in the opposition. We actually made ground because of the kicks, not despite them.
 
Duff link said:
I saw a bit of Monas on the \"classic match\" last night.

Lets just say it was one of the better halfback performances I've seen from a Manly player this year. Kicks were finding gaps, not picking out the best returners in the opposition. We actually made ground because of the kicks, not despite them.

I'd never seen that before (I left to go to work after 60 minutes and was telling everyone how great Manly were going) but overall we're a much better team than we we're back then. Defensively we're lightyears ahead and even though Donald has done well overseas he did one of his butterfingers routines at the end. And Monas was doing a bit of circlework as well.

Anyway, Orford is going to be our halfback this year and I don't think he's doing any worse than last year. When we exploded into the semis last year he took a step back and let the rest of the team do their thing. I still think he can do it this year but B Stewart makes a huge difference to his game. When Orford puts a bomb in that is too long, Stewart can actually chase it down and take it. No one else in the team seems to be able to do that.
But I don't think you can solely blame Orford for the loss on monday, it was a team effort and once again we're not starting games well. We need to step up a gear and play the entire game like we did for the last twenty minutes. It's no use relying on Orford or Stewart to save our arses after a bad start, the whole team needs to start well.
 
So it seems a lot of the issues with Orford come down to money v performance

If we keep going down that track, and those are the reasons that Orford cost us the game, then I will ask the same question I have in other topics with little response

Why is it all Matt Orford's fault, and Jamie Lyon has not been mentioned ?

Jamie is on money similar to Orford, filled a playmaking role the other night, and did far less on the park on the positive side than Orford did. Yet through all that, he doesn't get mentioned, which is surprising given that he was the whipping boy for the best part of the last 2 years
 
Kiwi Eagle link said:
So it seems a lot of the issues with Orford come down to money v performance

If we keep going down that track, and those are the reasons that Orford cost us the game, then I will ask the same question I have in other topics with little response

Why is it all Matt Orford's fault, and Jamie Lyon has not been mentioned ?

Jamie is on money similar to Orford, filled a playmaking role the other night, and did far less on the park on the positive side than Orford did. Yet through all that, he doesn't get mentioned, which is surprising given that he was the whipping boy for the best part of the last 2 years

I think singling out the guy who stepped up and was a massive part of the reason we won the comp last year and made up for the other guys deficiencies would be a little premature don't you??? Lets not forget for a significant part of the first part of the season this year Lyon was the form centre in the comp, since then he’s had and injury, SOO and swapped positions multiple times, A counter argument is fine but questioning Lyon's form a present is a bit premature.
 
We are talking about Monday nights match aren't we ? Why is it fine to "single out" 1 bloke on the park as the reason we lost it, when there were others on there that didn't play up to their top levels as well ?

imo, Lyon's form has been down since the Brisbane game, he hasn't been crap, but nothing that stands out since then.

And why does Lyon's form of last season earn him a free pass, but Orford's doesn't ?
 
Kiwi Eagle - i am inclined to agree with you.

Orford's form of last year has been thrown out the window in this debate - but the form of others from last year is being misinterpreted.

We have won 8 of the last 11 - one of the best winning streaks in the NRL.  We haev had key injuries, and we have had Origin to deal with as well (6? players used).

We played poorly on Monday as a team - and yet we lost by 1 point.

We can come back from that loss this weekend, adn regain our momentum (which has only slowed a little imo).

The question must also be asked - How would orford have performed on Monday night if the forwrad pack (other than choc and kingy) had dominated the ruck?  A halfback can only really perform when there is a platform upon which to dance - the platform on Monday night was small at best.....

We WILL bounce back - and the revivial will be led from the front - Perry, King, Watmough, Stewart, Kite, Rodney.......
 
Garts link said:
[quote author=KaZa link=topic=181254.msg235135#msg235135 date=1249436194]
[quote author=Garts link=topic=181254.msg235116#msg235116 date=1249424386]
[quote author=KaZa link=topic=181254.msg235098#msg235098 date=1249392039]
[quote author=Garts link=topic=181254.msg235036#msg235036 date=1249370624]
If you think we would be better off with someone else at half you are seriously brain damaged.  And by someone else I mean that is already on our books.

I understand the point of not re-signing him for big cash but dumping him with no viable solution is just stupid, extrememly stupid. 

No its my opinion.  I think Orford is beyond his best and is on a HUGE decline.. we have Daly Evans and Hodkinson or even Foran who could do a job. You dont know if they can step up to it or not.. so its not stupid. However Orford has cost us so many games this season with stupid decisions and his kicking game is poor.

Obviously if we dump him we would have to get someone else. But as to who? thats not my job.. Crusher and Co should have a viable option already. If your enjoying his performances this year then.. lucky you for not updating your glass lenses.
[/quote]

Your opinion is wrong :) Besides I cant take anything you say about Orford seriously when you still have a special tissue with Monas name on it. 
[/quote]

He left years ago. Get over it.

Im judging Orford over this years performances.. and hes been woeful.. barring a few good plays here and there, he has not been good enough for a new contract. Bring in a new half back next year and give the captaincy to Choc or Stewart (either one)
[/quote]

You have still not got over it :)

Like I said.  I have no issue if Des does that all I am saying it is dumb to drop him now as we will be worse off for the rest of the year and no chance of going back to back. 
[/quote]

I have moved on. :D

Thats what i said in my first response. "Not now though".
 
Why is this all about Ox. The TEAM were sh*te in the 1st half we came back & nearly won whilst pressurising the line in the 79th minute. Yes it was disappointing but so has the season but what the heck we've got over one of the worst starts ever & are in a good position for the play-offs. 3 months ago people were talking about premiers to wooden spoon contenders (remembers Vossys little stunt on the footy show offering wooden spoons in Manly centre). Bring on the Rabbits & lets ensure we're there to the absolute end of the season. Back to back Premiers Bring it on  ;D
 
I can't see dropping Orford at this stage helping us make the top 4, he has some runs on the board as a proven match winner.

One thing I have not seen mentioned is when the Tigers winger scored must have been 2nd try he was allowed to run around almost under the sticks. If our defenders had rushed back (Choc was one) Marshall would have been forced to take the kick from a lot further out on his bad side. He misses we win.
 
Utility Player, I've made that very point on a number of threads.  It was disgraceful given a point separated us at the end.  Did all those guys think we'd not be able to win?  Had they all given up at that point?  It would seem so.  Thankfully Choc is made of sterner stuff.  Captain material in my book..
 

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