The Book of Albert

[Woodsie]

It was Jordan's team and he pissed MJ off no end... But he was the best on the floor, redefined the roll of a rebounder.

And my point is that the coach knew he had to be treated differently, was and the bulls and Rodman have championships because it worked.

Yep .... but they were winning .... how do you figure it would have turned out if they were losing .. ?

 

[frank stokes]

Denis Roman never fit in.
Hall of fame
Five championships
Multiple player awards

Coach Jackson did his best with him but 100% could never control Dennis. They let Rodman have his own rules and that's what got the most out of him.

But the coach did put a lot of time into the relationship and Denis bought into the team and put in more effort than anyone according to MJ (with the occasional AWOL of course)...
Coaches need to be able to get on the same level as their players and show empathy and understanding for their individual circumstances if they want the player to believe in them... sure, it is not gonna always work but it will give you a result more often than telling people that they are wrong for being who they are...

 

[manlyfan76]

Yep .... but they were winning .... how do you figure it would have turned out if they were losing .. ?

Funny enough the owners sacked the coach, didn't re-sign Pippen and thus lost MJ and Rodman after winning 3 straight titles.

 

[Simonmyers11]

Very sensible and on the money. Its the fullback and inside defenders that drop behind to cover the rush up. When Tom was there no problem but his replacements were and are not good enough to get the structure right. In turn makes Jorge look like a fool when we are scored on.

Jam up defence works well, it was working amazing first 6-7 rds.

Problem I see is Tom not being there for a start, he single handily was strong and fast enough to come across in cover and bowl a defender into touch or cover up an attacking kick.

The middle and ruck has lost a bit of control and we are also being penalized a lot especially Jake and giving away a lot of repeat sets and are continually on back foot. A team like Souths used the ball effectively to the edges and we cannot turn and cover defend in time.

If you play a jamming type defence, a winger or centre need to be able to have enough speed to turn and cover if ball is quickly spread to edges. At the moment we have players rushing in, missing tackles and then players like Jorge to slow to turn and cover.

Starts at ruck, defence just pushing through Levi, then the 5/8 is missing a bit causing a centre to rush in, miss leaving a slow winger exposed.

New rule definitely has not helped Jake, then we are missing Walker defence at 5/8 who was quite effective this year, Parker was usually solid when he then didn't have to rush in, then we had Tom at back who was incredible at that last ditch cover

 

[frank stokes]

What? You mean the manly doctors and coaching department make the decisions? I thought it was all the experts on here that the club listened to.

Haha... hardly... no, you are correct EoL the doctors determine if somebody is available to play and DES is solely responsible for selections AND RESULTS from those selections...

 

[manlyfan76]

Coaches need to be able to get on the same level as their players and show empathy and understanding for their individual circumstances if they want the player to believe in them.

This is probably my original point.

Kids today are not motivated by the ways of previous generations.
There is a series of books by Dorfman on the mental aspects of baseball. He was a psychologist and baseball guy. It's baseball specific but I would encourage all up and coming athletes to read it.

 

[manlyfan76]

Haha... hardly... no, you are correct EoL the doctors determine if somebody is available to play and DES is solely responsible for selections AND RESULTS from those selections...

I'd add that players pick themselves first (attitude, training extras etc) then the coach picks them.

 

[Bearfax]

While it's good that Albert has been recalled from loan duty at the Warriors & looks to be debuting for Manly this week, I'm concerned at how it appears to have happened.

There is obviously more going on behind the scenes than we're aware of - it won't simply be a case of Des being over-conservatively stubborn nor will it be purely a case of Casa de Hoppa trying to force Des' hand by threatening to walk but is likely to be somewhere in the middle.

What concerns me about it is, in light of John's now-deleted comments, it does look like the Hoppa family spat the dummy, threatened to walk & have now got their way, possibly setting a precedent for other dissatisfied players in the future.

Considering Hoppa senior was all over the media as being the self-appointed father figure for Fainu when he was under his online porn investigation last year, & we know Fainu, Suli, Ola etc are very tight as a group, what's to stop Hoppa snr from going into bat any time one of them feels dissatisfied at how they perceive they're being treated by the club down the track?

Alternatively a negotiated agreement and peace pipe has been smoked and that is sensible behaviour.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

We need to focus on the player and not his father. I can understand a talented kid going crazy watching blokes selected ahead of him fail week after week. From reports from the Warriors and snippets from Manly players in the past it appears that the kid is liked within the playing group. His father is not his doing and it was just a matter of time he would blow up. For the last 7 weeks or so I cringe when I get the email on Tuesday evenings announcing the line up to see the same lambs in the back line being sent to slaughter week after week. Additionally some of the selections in the forwards have been difficult to understand and in my view did not represent selection on the basis of form. I feel for the pack that is busting its gut whilst the back line bleeds points. I suspect the decision to loan young Hoppa to the Warriors was a breaking point within the squad. There was no logic to that decision and it could only have been a product of some kind of a stale mate. I hope that Des was not responsible for that decision. I have a lot of wonderful Manly memories to be grateful for that have come from the efforts of Des Hasler. But this club wont be successful again unless those who have control look forward and evolve with the game that is changing. With risk comes reward. Without risk the last 8 weeks we have achieved little. We need to start building for next year and give the young one's opportunity and experience now and not waste next year doing that.

 

[Bearfax]

I'd add that players pick themselves first (attitude, training extras etc) then the coach picks them.

Of course. Human nature. Unless you are totally altruistic, you always think of yourself first. Of course a good manager learns how to make you think you're getting your own way, at the same time as getting what he or she wants.

 

[frank stokes]

This is probably my original point.

Kids today are not motivated by the ways of previous generations.
There is a series of books by Dorfman on the mental aspects of baseball. He was a psychologist and baseball guy. It's baseball specific but I would encourage all up and coming athletes to read it.

PLENTY of examples of talented athletes who couldnt succeed due to mental health issues MF76 and kids today grow up under a totally separate social structure to previous generations... however the importance of providing effective mentoring and leadership to young kids remains much the same...

 

[HoldenV8]

Cust was dropped as Walker was returning. Pure and simple. Walker is a better player than Cust at 6 or centre at this point in their careers.
Cust has done nothing the last 2 weeks, but he is not Robinson Crusoe.

What is at debate is whether Cust at 6 and Walker at centre replacing Suli or Scorpio would be overall better for the team?

If Suli was not out injured as well, I would have left dropped Jorge, moved Garrick to the left outside of Parker (who is a better defender than Suli), left Cust at 6, put Walks into right centre and moved Suli out to the right wing.

As it is, with Suli being out, and Hopoate being recalled from the Warriors, I suspect our 1-5 named this afternoon will be Funa, Taufua, Parker, Garrick, Hopoate (I would have said Miski on the wing, but I don't think Albert has been brought back just to be named in the 21 and not play).

 

[Ranga]

Denis Roman never fit in.
Hall of fame
Five championships
Multiple player awards

Coach Jackson did his best with him but 100% could never control Dennis. They let Rodman have his own rules and that's what got the most out of him.

Yeah but by the time Denis got to Chicago, he had already won titles with Detroit. I.e., he had runs on the board. The key question is whether his shenanigans were tolerated when he was starting out at the Pistons (which I genuinely don't know the answer to).

 

[HoldenV8]

Albert's been recalled I suspect mostly because of Suli's injury and the fact that Turbo's return date is right now unknown. With Suli out it does leave us very short on quality backs. Seriously, the next in line was probably Abbas Miski and while he will give his best if he played ... it would be like having Jorge Taufua on the left wing and Jorge Taufua on the right wing. Damn, I'd rather see Jetski at centre and Parker on the wing than that. And I don't want to see that either, especially not as a starting line up.

Albert Hopoate may be seriously short on match fitness and seniors experience, but even after 2 ACL's in 2 years he has much more upside to his game than Miski. Which is why I suspect that he'll be named on the wing later this arvo with Garrick likely to move one in to the centres (if not to fullback with Funa at centre).

 

[manlyfan76]

Yeah but by the time Denis got to Chicago, he had already won titles with Detroit. I.e., he had runs on the board. The key question is whether his shenanigans were tolerated when he was starting out at the Pistons (which I genuinely don't know the answer to).

While at Detroit Dennis was "mild" and his personality had not come out.
Once in Chicago he let himself be himself he says.

By the time he signed to a college team he had never completed a full season of organised sport.

 

[HoldenV8]

Yeah but by the time Denis got to Chicago, he had already won titles with Detroit. I.e., he had runs on the board. The key question is whether his shenanigans were tolerated when he was starting out at the Pistons (which I genuinely don't know the answer to).

Rodman really didn't start his off court antics until 1993, the year he was traded from Detroit to San Antonio (he also had an abortive suicide attempt in 1993, which is when he "reinvented himself"). The Pistons under Chuck Daly may have been known as the "Bad Boys of the NBA", but that was more their on court physical play than it was because they were regularly in off court trouble or making headlines by changing their hair colour every other week or hanging out with Playmates. Chicago knew full well what they were getting themselves into when they signed him, but generally overlooked it so long as he played well, which he did.

 

[KNUCKLES]

While at Detroit Dennis was "mild" and his personality had not come out.
Once in Chicago he let himself be himself he says.

By the time he signed to a college team he had never completed a full season of organised sport.

Detroit changed him.. their hard and rough approach made him the player he was and the fame made him the person he is

 

[MPC75]

All I know is that the last time Albert played he was 16 years of age. I don’t care who it is, but to go straight to NRL with no game time for 2 years is very high risk for someone in their 20’s let alone a teenager. Perhaps the Warriors were a good fit to ease him into it. They are a big strong physical Team that could support him, unlike our backs that get ragdolled every time they touch the ball

 

[47MVEagle]

Alternatively a negotiated agreement and peace pipe has been smoked and that is sensible behaviour.

Hmm, I'm fairly optimistic by nature but unfortunately when John Hopoate is involved in anything it's usually because he's primarily motivated by money.

 

[manlyfan76]

Detroit changed him.. their hard and rough approach made him the player he was and the fame made him the person he is

They gave him a home, don't know if they changed him too much. He was the hustle, active type in college that he was at Pistons, Pistons were just aggressive across the court and Roman fitted in. Almost Killed him when they broke up.