The Kieran Forum

[Sheikheagle]

can 't underestimate Weekes to develop into a good 6 as well . Seems to like a bit of room to move and a natural fit as a full back but a lot of natural ability and speed and footy sense so no reason why again he could not be a capable 6 . Should be able to manage O K in defence as time moves on , still see him in the Niko Hynes mould and would certainly not like to see him move on . Maybe Latu Fainu could play as a 7 post D C E . Josh Schuster will ideally be a Manly long termer and the future 6 can only be speculation at this stage but again really would like Weekes to be in the 6 frame as well .

Similar build to Hynes that’s for sure. Both not overly big but strong in the legs.

 

[Snake]

I cannot understand the cap problem with us. Yes we have 3 players who are taking up most of the cap and we have re signed some of our young guns. We are losing players at years end but we are still under cap pressure. We havent signed any big names since walker and Tapou, only fringe players, but we are still under cap pressure. What I fear most is if we will ever be in a position to go for any marque players again in the future. We have let more players go in the last decade than any other club but havent replaced them with anyone with any quality but we are still under cap pressure. Something is wrong somewhere. It doesnt make any sense

It’s to do with the players we have had to upgrade. I don’t mean to come off like a dick but I know that for a fact. I understand it can seem a bit confusing because Taupau and Walker are leaving but when we originally signed a number of players in our squad, they were bargain buys and/or rookie contracts. Last year saw the rise of many many talented young players and the club has had to upgrade every single one of them.

The best example is a guy like Haumole. He was on 125k and not in the starting line up at the beginning of last year and now he can command 600k + so there is a 3rd of the money for Taupau gone before you even sneeze.

Thing is, when these players get upgraded, it doesn’t appear as ‘signing news’ because they’re already on contract. Even Saab is on more now than he was when we purchased him from the Dragons.

 

[Smokin Joe]

It’s to do with the players we have had to upgrade. I don’t mean to come off like a dick but I know that for a fact. I understand it can seem a bit confusing because Taupau and Walker are leaving but when we originally signed a number of players in our squad, they were bargain buys and/or rookie contracts. Last year saw the rise of many many talented young players and the club has had to upgrade every single one of them.

The best example is a guy like Haumole. He was on 125k and not in the starting line up at the beginning of last year and now he can command 600k + so there is a 3rd of the money for Taupau gone before you even sneeze.

Thing is, when these players get upgraded, it doesn’t appear as ‘signing news’ because they’re already on contract. Even Saab is on more now than he was when we purchased him from the Dragons.

It is not upgrading because they played well,that implies we re-negotiated deals.
It is built into contracts that they earn more each year of the contract(but not drastic amounts in the last years to be backended).
Saab,Olakau'atu,Paseka,Keppie,Tuipulotu all have long term contracts that increase each year,same as Schuster.
The perfect example is Latu Fainu,he signed a 4 year contract but it is not a flat rate over 4 years.
I am not claiming exact knowledge but this year would be a minimal amount and next year he would be on more(possibly a dev contract but maybe not).
The following 2 years would have guarantees that he is on a dev contract or top 30 contract,this means that the club has to budget for the coming years and why people on here get confused,they are not being re-negotiated.
The perfect example is actually Zac Saddler when he was at the dogs,his final year in his contract stipulated that he had to be in the top 30 and was why they pushed to get him out as they did not think he was worth a spot in the 30 at that point.

 

[Snake]

It is not upgrading because they played well,that implies we re-negotiated deals.

I know for a fact that it is renegotiating. Not giving an opinion, that’s from the horses mouth. There are players in this squad that had their deals upgraded because their stocks rose. That’s not to say that some players don’t have incremental increases written into their contracts (as you’ve correctly pointed out) but there are many cases of players who flat out had 100s of thousands of dollars added to their contract based on how they performed last year.

It’s no different to the Burton situation at Bulldogs. They got him for a steal because he hadn’t established himself in FG yet. However, he had a breakout year and his price skyrocketed. Gus has publicly come out and said that he won’t have a player on the books that’s earning significantly less than their market value because of the problems it causes. Same thing happened with Daly in 2011. Renegotiated upgrades are commonplace in the game and have been for years.

Incentive based contracts also don’t involve 200-300k jumps based on hypotheticals...they’re usually about activated an extra 50k.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

So last nights news suggested the announcement would be today.

I’d hope the Titans have the decency to at least leave it until after the game.

 

[Koko22]

I know for a fact that it is renegotiating.

Always one person on a sports site who claims they know inside knowledge "fact" please lol

 

[Smokin Joe]

I know for a fact that it is renegotiating. Not giving an opinion, that’s from the horses mouth. There are players in this squad that had their deals upgraded because their stocks rose. That’s not to say that some players don’t have incremental increases written into their contracts (as you’ve correctly pointed out) but there are many cases of players who flat out had 100s of thousands of dollars added to their contract based on how they performed last year.

It’s no different to the Burton situation at Bulldogs. They got him for a steal because he hadn’t established himself in FG yet. However, he had a breakout year and his price skyrocketed. Gus has publicly come out and said that he won’t have a player on the books that’s earning significantly less than their market value because of the problems it causes. Same thing happened with Daly in 2011. Renegotiated upgrades are commonplace in the game and have been for years.

Incentive based contracts also don’t involve 200-300k jumps based on hypotheticals...they’re usually about activated an extra 50k.

Sorry,but clubs don't just hand out massive upgrades because a player plays well,to achieve this from one year to the next would be impossible to budget for.
A club does not play a million under the salary cap on the speculation that some players might have a good year and they need the room the following year to fit in the upgrades.
Managers put clauses in such as mutual option,club option,player option etc...that can be activated but not just because they have a good year.
The amount of players coming off contract each year does not cover it.
If a player is coming off contract they may up the final year to stop being poached before the November deadline.
The reason we don't bring in big names is because we have a good crop of young players coming through and we have budgeted for them,otherwise we would be having to shed contracted players mid contract and we have not been doing that.

 

[Smokin Joe]

We lost Siro,Gosiewski,Suli,Funa and Cust from last year,we brought in Bullemor.
We re-signed(and most were on more money than their previous contracts) Keppie,Sipley,Croker,Olakau'atu,Garrick,Schuster,Harper,Parker,Koula and Lawton as well as Marty's backended contract.
Factor in as well paying for the guys coming into the squad to take the place of players not retained.
If we had massively upgraded other players who had a good year as well we would have had to be under the cap last year by a lot to be under the cap this year.
Olakau'atu was used as an example of being unofficially upgraded which is false as he officially re-signed for 4 years.

 

[Snake]

Sorry,but clubs don't just hand out massive upgrades because a player plays well,to achieve this from one year to the next would be impossible to budget for.
A club does not play a million under the salary cap on the speculation that some players might have a good year and they need the room the following year to fit in the upgrades.
Managers put clauses in such as mutual option,club option,player option etc...that can be activated but not just because they have a good year.
The amount of players coming off contract each year does not cover it.
If a player is coming off contract they may up the final year to stop being poached before the November deadline.
The reason we don't bring in big names is because we have a good crop of young players coming through and we have budgeted for them,otherwise we would be having to shed contracted players mid contract and we have not been doing that.

Ok the people employed at Manly don’t anything about what is really going on. Sorry. You know more because you run water for the juniors. My bad. You know an upgraded deal can be arranged for the following year yeah?

 

[Snake]

Always one person on a sports site who claims they know inside knowledge "fact" please lol

It’s either that or I am psychic?! Dope.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Ok the people employed at Manly don’t anything about what is really going on. Sorry. You know more because you run water for the juniors. My bad. You know an upgraded deal can be arranged for the following year yeah?

Funny as you used Ola as an example of unofficial upgrading because you are in the know,when he officially re-signed for 4 more years.
You don't like having your facts questioned do you,you lose it and resort to childish name calling.
Of course because I have as much interest in the juniors as the top side I am not therefore qualified to debate your intellect on the NRL side lol.

 

[Snake]

Funny as you used Ola as an example of unofficial upgrading because you are in the know,when he officially re-signed for 4 more years.
You don't like having your facts questioned do you,you lose it and resort to childish name calling.
Of course because I have as much interest in the juniors as the top side I am not therefore qualified to debate your intellect on the NRL side lol.

I don’t need your approval for information I know to be to a fact. Haumole re-signed at the beginning of 2021 before he had a breakout year last year and his stocks rose considerably. In spite of what you think, clubs do upgrade players when their stocks rise all the time. Gould has spoken about it publicly on numerous occasions. I reckon he might know a bit more than a junior water boy.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I don’t need your approval for information I know to be to a fact. Haumole re-signed at the beginning of 2021 before he had a breakout year last year and his stocks rose considerably. In spite of what you think, clubs do upgrade players when their stocks rise all the time. Gould has spoken about it publicly on numerous occasions. I reckon he might know a bit more than a junior water boy.

So Gus is your inside info at Manly? Lol.
Yep Ola signed a 4 year contract being paid $125K in the first year lol

 

[Snake]

So Gus is your inside info at Manly? Lol.
Yep Ola signed a 4 year contract being paid $125K in the first year lol

Have a nice day waterboy lol

 

[Smokin Joe]

Have a nice day waterboy lol

Lol,it started quiet but has become more hilarious and entertaining as the arvo has gone on.
Have a good one Big Time.

 

[MadMarcus]

TBH Foran is worth $750k/year imo… so sign him for 2 years @$375k and if he breaks down at the end of 2023 so be it. You might even get a medical retirement (unlikely I know) for 2024. You’d probably even get him for less because surely he doesn’t want to move to the GC, plus there could be the opportunity for a coaching role here after retirement….

 

[hozza]

Foran pretty much confirmed he’s gone next year on triple m. Sounded pretty down about it. Hopefully the Shu ups his fitness game in the next 9 mths or so. Also Humphrey waiting in the wings..

To be honest I’m more worried about having a quality 9 next year

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Foran pretty much confirmed he’s gone next year on triple m. Sounded pretty down about it.

All good. Remember, we even let Beaver go when he wanted to play on.
Foz needs to make the most of this year - which he was always going to do anyway.

 

[double hoops]

Hard to believe DES would not find a way to retain FOZ if he wanted too. $350k for an experienced half who is fit and playing well is an absolute steal. Might be more too it. Might be more to play out yet.

 

[wombatgc]

I say good luck to Foz if he can get another two years on good money. Would I like him to stay? Of course. I think it’s a win-win situation for Manly and Foz.