The Kieran Forum

[MWSE4LIFE]

Interesting take on it from SMH. Lot more under the surface than just the players chasing cash.

Labyrinth of Eels

It would take the skill of Sherlock Holmes to unravel the political battle lines being drawn up in the seemingly never-ending power games at the Parramatta Eels. If Kieran Foran thought Manly could blue in the boardroom he needs to know he has the potential to be a political pawn in the Parramatta cesspool. If Brad Arthur delivers Foran to Parramatta he will be the king among the fans and playing group but not necessarily with the incumbent board of the cashed-up Parramatta Leagues Club. There is a key group who want ex-coach Daniel Anderson back. Anderson is currently sitting on Arthur's shoulder as coaching director. That can't be easy. It wouldn't surprise if Foran has a clause in his contract that he can walk if Arthur is replaced as coach.

It is a similar situation with Anthony Watmough's contract. That won't deter the push for Anderson – a man the players really enjoy being coached by. Straight-up success is what is required for Arthur. He had four games to wrap up a final spot with Jarryd Hayne last year and couldn't get the win when it mattered and that gives his enemies ammunition to replace him. Arthur's agent got a new deal in October but is trying to get an upgrade. That's part of the double play going on — where Foran is being used. Both Daly Cherry-Evans and Arthur share the same management company. In pushing for an upgraded deal for Arthur, they are saying the only hope Parramatta have of securing Foran is if he is the coach. It suits them for Foran – a player they don't manage — to be linked to the Eels while they push for more money for the coach. By putting forward the line that Foran is Parramatta-bound, which is a definite chance of happening, there is suddenly more desperation to sign their other client, Cherry-Evans – and if Manly think Foran is departing, there is more money available for Cherry-Evans. When Fairfax Media ran a story saying that Foran had signed, the Eels went into meltdown. They are trying to provide evidence they had nothing to do with that story appearing.

 

[Ryan]

Wait - I thought the whole "Cafe Gate" thing started with something you were told somebody overheard, not something you heard yourself. Hence the scepticism on the site.

It was..I was just being rude to robbiea, as thats the general way he is to me

 

[Red Pill]

This is the biggest thread I have seen!
Not sure if anyone has pointed out that Parramatta has been a graveyard for halfbacks for the last 20 years. Talk about the poison chalice!
This thought would have crossed Forans mind?
Parramatta is a marquee player graveyard

 

[BOZO]

The great Manly club took these two halves into its bosom and Mothered them , breast fed them and nurtured them from boys to men and turned them into the great players that they are . They should have more respect for their Mother Manly

 

[robbiea]

It was..I was just being rude to robbiea, as thats the general way he is to me

I wasn't being rude ,You were making statements judging Foran's character.
Iv'e met the kid ,seems like he has great character & everyone at the club seems to think so also.
Sorry buddy if you find my remarks rude .It just seems your train of thought on most subjects is the exact opposite of mine.

 

[Red Pill]

I would be surprised if Foran seduced into going to the slime.
Once he weighs up the risks vs $ he will hopefully see that the risk to his career is too great! Hopefully anyway!
Des is the dark horse in this race! Des would surely have a stronger relationship with him than legend Arthur. Dogs are also more capable of winning a few comps

 

[Ryan]

I wasn't being rude ,You were making statements judging Foran's character.
Iv'e met the kid ,seems like he has great character & everyone at the club seems to think so also.
Sorry buddy if you find my remarks rude .It just seems your train of thought on most subjects is the exact opposite of mine.

Doesnt mean we cant respect each others opinions

 

[Technical Coach]

In some ways the position Manly are currently in with struggling to retain both their halves is rather unique (in terms of at their prime still on the rise and trying to retain) that it does not happen all that often if at all---even rare to not retain a single great half a club has created.

Teams in the past that have developed their own great half or 5/8 tend to see the investment as long term basically building a team around them until that half or 5/8 retires or moves on at "the end of their career".

Fans invest heavily in the love of their halves(due to the long term expectation they will be with the club) embracing their playing styles and structures as a reflection of all things "done Manly's way", both are tough,classy well spoken and epitomize all things Manly.

If both players were great forwards I doubt we would have threads all over the place as we do now----clubs expect to turn forwards over(even great ones) more often than quality halves.

This is another reason why the enthusiasm levels for this season from the fan base is pretty low right now----fans are just exhausted and in some cases like myself not into supporting or analysing the performance structure of a team that is not really long term anyway.

Yes there is the old adage of "Support the club ahead of the team" but most really want to "support the team that represents the colours well"(mainstream supporter) and since the halves are the focal point of most things on the field why would they invest their enthusiasm into a short term team line up.

 

[ManlyMagic]

How can 2 players make decisions in an instant on the football field yet take six months to make one off it?

 

[JenEagle]

Agree with redpill Foran should think about how many halves have failed at parra. Such a poor history of success on and off the field there.

I think he would be crazy to go to the eels. So unstable. The dogs under Des though. Different story. Despite what he has supposedly said about money not being the most important issue the fact he is looking so closely at parra would suggest it must be about coin as if he wanted to play in a competitive team make top 4, improve as a player etc then he would be deciding between dogs and manly. He wouldn't have even bothered meeting with parra especially after Hayne left

 

[MWSE4LIFE]

In some ways the position Manly are currently in with struggling to retain both their halves is rather unique (in terms of at their prime still on the rise and trying to retain) that it does not happen all that often if at all---even rare to not retain a single great half a club has created.

Teams in the past that have developed their own great half or 5/8 tend to see the investment as long term basically building a team around them until that half or 5/8 retires or moves on at "the end of their career".

Fans invest heavily in the love of their halves(due to the long term expectation they will be with the club) embracing their playing styles and structures as a reflection of all things "done Manly's way", both are tough,classy well spoken and epitomize all things Manly.

If both players were great forwards I doubt we would have threads all over the place as we do now----clubs expect to turn forwards over(even great ones) more often than quality halves.

This is another reason why the enthusiasm levels for this season from the fan base is pretty low right now----fans are just exhausted and in some cases like myself not into supporting or analysing the performance structure of a team that is not really long term anyway.

Yes there is the old adage of "Support the club ahead of the team" but most really want to "support the team that represents the colours well"(mainstream supporter) and since the halves are the focal point of most things on the field why would they invest their enthusiasm into a short term team line up.

Everything you say is spot on. (as are you other posts) I suppose I have seen it so many times now that we always find a way to come out on top. Why invest enthusiasm? .... Because it's Manly. But I'II admit, I'm as blind as they come. Keep on posting.

 

[Technical Coach]

Agree with redpill Foran should think about how many halves have failed at parra. Such a poor history of success on and off the field there.

I think he would be crazy to go to the eels. So unstable. The dogs under Des though. Different story. Despite what he has supposedly said about money not being the most important issue the fact he is looking so closely at parra would suggest it must be about coin as if he wanted to play in a competitive team make top 4, improve as a player etc then he would be deciding between dogs and manly. He wouldn't have even bothered meeting with parra especially after Hayne left

He might feel that there is greater chances of improving in all facets of life under a different coach (coaching is not just about football but man management and offering a wise old head) not just in a footballing sense--- or feels a certain coach can extract more enthusiasm out of him to be inspired in different ways.

This is the area I have always had doubts about Tooves(the aura that surrounds him part) but I can't knock what Tooves has done in trying to fine tune and fix some of Dessies structures he has done well in this area and listened to the people that surround him for ideas.

 

[Technical Coach]

Everything you say is spot on. (as are you other posts) I suppose I have seen it so many times now that we always find a way to come out on top. Why invest enthusiasm? .... Because it's Manly. But I'II admit, I'm as blind as they come. Keep on posting.

If you go back long enough in my posting history I doubt you will agree with most things I have said but just don't go there lol as I don't mind the odd compliment hehe.

 

[JenEagle]

Yeah I am not an expert in league structures however it would seem to me that we have played some more attractive football under tooves particularly the use of our backs however again I am not an expert at all.

 

[Ryan]

I don't care too much if players come or players go, but I must say I am hoping like hell that Foran stays just so I can watch posters like Ryan and sheridanstand78 eat humble pie!

It would prove nothing. They can renege on deals up to a certain point in time, and id have preffered he remained anyways.

The bull**** to get to that point is a joke regardless of the outcome

 

[Ryan]

Yeah I am not an expert in league structures however it would seem to me that we have played some more attractive football under tooves particularly the use of our backs however again I am not an expert at all.

Our structures under Des were second to none. They were innovative, and adaptive. So far, Toovey has just just rode off those coat tails so far, and it has worked up until the finals start.

Then, injuries or whatever has meant we are roadkill.

 

[Technical Coach]

Our structures under Des were second to none. They were innovative, and adaptive. So far, Toovey has just just rode off those coat tails so far, and it has worked up until the finals start.

Then, injuries or whatever has meant we are roadkill.

They were second to some a few times lol but for the stage and young age of the halves from 2009 onwards some of his structures were limiting and simple---totally understandable.

Tooves has polished and improved upon what Des started along with playing straighter, faster and slightly more off the cuff as in play what you see a little more what is in front of you than the past.

This is not to say Des would not have done the same thing, as the confidence levels, skillset and maturity of the halves improved less "restrictive left and right structures" would have been implemented to take the halves to the next level, keep things fresh and less predictable.

I don't see Tooves with the coaching ability to go into a new club and set a plan or lay the foundations to excellence but I do see him fine tuning and adding upon what already has been established which is what Manly required and was all that was needed.

 

[master blaster]

Well if he has signed with Parramatta, let's focus on him delivering another premiership here this year scoring the match winning try. Unfortunately he'll have a pec tear and acl while scoring it keeping him out for a year

yeah,well if he has already signed with parra,Joe Kelly obviously doesnt know,and didnt he say that Foran and his management gave him their word that he hasnt already signed with parra or anyone one else. If this is not true,then his word means Jack .....t and they are all liars,doesnt say much about his character then

 

[Loobs]

It's selling Tooves short to say that he's just run with Des' master plan. Choc himself said that Tooves basically ran the forwards training under Des so I'm sure he was involved in what they did.

 

[mickqld]

How can 2 players make decisions in an instant on the football field yet take six months to make one off it?

Wake up people and stop reading and believing all this click bait bullsht. The reason they are taking so long is because they DON'T WANT TO LEAVE. They are torn between loyalty, mates and a consistent top 4 club that has schooled them to where they are today or going somewhere else for substantially more money. With a $6.5 million salary cap we can't possibly afford 2 guys on $1million+ each. They don't want to go but if it's a choice of Manly at 700-800k or elsewhere for 200-400k more per year that's too much to knock back for mates and loyalty for anyone. Stop knifing the guys before anything has actually happened for godsake.