Trump

This one?



That does not answer my question and instead, in what seems to be a pattern, talks about "both sides".

I tell you what. Post the same amount of information re democrats talking about the exact situation similar to the above and I am happy to read through it.
You specifically asked what do I think of it all, and is there a coverup. How does my post #644 not answer that? And I’m sorry if it disappoints you that I believe there is a coverup on both sides, but that’s what I think. Otherwise, why did Biden not release the “client list” when he was in office?

If there is a pattern to our exchanges, it seems to be that you want me to say Trump is bad and the left are without fault.
 
No wonder she was given the job to cover it up.
 

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You specifically asked what do I think of it all, and is there a coverup. How does my post #644 not answer that? And I’m sorry if it disappoints you that I believe there is a coverup on both sides, but that’s what I think. Otherwise, why did Biden not release the “client list” when he was in office?

If there is a pattern to our exchanges, it seems to be that you want me to say Trump is bad and the left are without fault.
Exactly, it was Biden's baby to begin with. Epstein was snuffed out in prison, and the cover up started well before Epstein's demise.
 
You specifically asked what do I think of it all, and is there a coverup. How does my post #644 not answer that? And I’m sorry if it disappoints you that I believe there is a coverup on both sides, but that’s what I think. Otherwise, why did Biden not release the “client list” when he was in office?

If there is a pattern to our exchanges, it seems to be that you want me to say Trump is bad and the left are without fault.

I actually asked if you thought they exploited the maga base or there was a cover up.

So you are now saying that there is a cover up from both sides.

For what it is worth I believe that Biden did not release it was there was not anything substantive in it.
 
You specifically asked what do I think of it all, and is there a coverup. How does my post #644 not answer that? And I’m sorry if it disappoints you that I believe there is a coverup on both sides, but that’s what I think. Otherwise, why did Biden not release the “client list” when he was in office?

If there is a pattern to our exchanges, it seems to be that you want me to say Trump is bad and the left are without fault.

Sorry forgot one more thing. Again correct me if I am wrong but i do not recall you placing the same critical view that I have placed on some of the biden actions (like the border policy, the way they handled his health)
 
You make some interesting points, as usual. On this bit …

“Utopian” – many mean it as pie in the sky, can never happen in reality. Never is a long time! Homo sapiens first appeared as a distinct species 300,000 years ago and until about 10,000 years ago lived in small, nomadic groups with low population density who typically valued cooperation, sharing, egalitarianism, and social cohesion (or so current thinking says).

10,000 years ago the first agricultural revolution led to a significant shift in human societies - larger, settled agricultural communities. More hierarchical social structures began to evolve. Big business began … what, within the last couple hundred years…? less?

So human social evolution – only in the last 3% of our existence as a species – has undergone radical changes. And the rate of change seems to be accelerating ever faster, certainly since the Industrial Revolution.

Therefore it’s quite possible what looks ‘utopian’ can change very quickly, like nearly everything else.

Second point - you suggest ‘socialism’ can never last long due to "human greed and vulnerability to external disturbances." Not sure precisely what you mean by this. But from what (little) I know of the Russian revolution – which was the first conscious attempt to overthrow capitalism within a country – no sooner had it occurred than the forces of capitalism rallied to attack and bring it down. Not only the ousted capitalist class, but the other capitalist countries – UK, France Japan, the US and others sent troops and supplies to support the various ‘White Army’ forces. Those other countries also cut off trade and imposed embargoes on Russia.

In every other case where capitalism has come under threat from a communist uprising the same thing has happened. For obvious reasons capitalists of the world view communism anywhere as a potential existential threat to their interests and do whatever they can to crush it.

I realise some think they have won this battle! But stepping back to look at history from a wider perspective – hasn’t all this only just begun to play out? We are at a stage of human social and economic development that has never existed before, and the contradictions of capitalism have certainly not been resolved.

As for Donald, his ascension while spectacular is not unique. Capitalism is creaking and groaning in many places around the world, and the US is not the only place where the extreme right is currently gaining in influence.
Hey, realised i missed getting back to you on this a few weeks back so thought i'd pop back in temporarily. Haven't kept up too much since then. Just glancing at the previous pages it appears I may have been better off away from it. Trump fans seem to be rehashing the current MAGA talking points - with many stepping in line regarding the crapshoot Epstein saga. I wonder if a a few months ago they took Trump's bait that the evidence would be released once he regained power? I mainly get disappointed that a fair chunk of Trump fans here continue to brush past (often factual) counterpoints raised by other users. Many of the same points keep popping up.

Anyways, you've raised an eye-opening point re: "utopian". Historically, Socialism struggled to keep its people fed. It's success was dependant on weather/harvests/avoiding crisis and war. There was a long term vision that could only be built with an acceptance of lean years and a willingness for manual-labour to develop. With modern technology, utopian concepts such as socialism begin to gain a mechanism to function more sustainably (don't think we're quite there yet). The rise of automation/technology is what makes it bizarre that people get hooked on Trump's ancient vision of 'returning workers to factories' in 2025.

On point two, i.e. elaborating on why I wrote ‘socialism’ can never last long due to "human greed and vulnerability to external disturbances.":
  • I'd cross out the word "never" after taking into account your first point
  • As for external disturbances - in my original post I was more referring to the vulnerability to drought, unforeseen crises and the like. I hadn't considered capitalist opposition but at least in Russia's context this certainly had a major influence. One additional aspect also being the boycotts / constraints on global trade. By the time Stalin got in power it likely fueled much of his paranoia (both internal and external capitalist threats). Russia showed that when isolated, Socialism struggles to sustain itself.
  • That said, my perspective on this may be quite outdated as I haven't studied more modern examples.
  • The vague reference to human greed refers to how periods of misfortune (famine, drought, disease, war, trade-freezes etc...) led itself to vast ideological changes / shifting visions. My theory (which I have yet to try prove or disprove) is that even if there's a potential for long-term prosperity, a large group of people won't accept the idea of sharing adversity during the inevitable lean years. Hence, resistance and opposition is likely always going to be a prominent feature. Seeing as Socialism is fairly new in the scheme of things it isn't really bounded to a strict rulebook / set of constraints to keep leaders in check.
I think with baby steps it is feasible, but otherwise it will only take some sustained pressure for things to come undone. However, this alone is not necessarily a trademark of Socialism or left/right. IMO it is more a result of lacking constraints. From misfortune and adversity comes paranoia and resistance, then purging and ultimately oppression.

Funnily enough the US has seen much of this slowly (??) occur over the past few months. They've launched a war on the media (many of which is right-owned), middle-class, law-enforcement, education and global trade. Simultaneously they've pushed narratives on immigrants ('aliens') and political opposition ('radical liberals'). Paranoid over internal disagreements in the party - threatening to get rid of those who disagree. List goes on.
 
I actually asked if you thought they exploited the maga base or there was a cover up.

So you are now saying that there is a cover up from both sides.

For what it is worth I believe that Biden did not release it was there was not anything substantive in it.
I said there was a coverup from both sides in my post #644, which is why I referred you to that post. Not sure I agree with you that there is nothing substantive in it, but I don’t believe we will ever get the truth.
 
Sorry forgot one more thing. Again correct me if I am wrong but i do not recall you placing the same critical view that I have placed on some of the biden actions (like the border policy, the way they handled his health)
I try to take a critical view of all things. I have said many times that Trump is a clownish buffoon, but I try to separate personalities from policies as much as possible. If there are particular Trump policies that you disagree with, happy to provide my thoughts.
 
So according to trump the Dems created the Epstein files, didn't use them. trump got elected, didn't use them, Trump ran again, didn't use them, he's elected, didn't use them and hope that he release them without ever looking at them.

And people believe that.
 

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