Drop him now?

[lsz]

They have the CEO they want not sure they have the coach they want (if not sack him) and we were told Penn was going 2 sign both before Christmas if you ask me (and I'm a fan of a single owner structure) Penn has some questions over his ability 2 run a club he has 2 get his hands dirty. Love him or hate him Rusty get's the job done Penn I'm not sure so far.

Of course he turned Soufs into a powerhouse team in 6 months with no mistakes

 

[lurker]

They have the CEO they want not sure they have the coach they want (if not sack him) and we were told Penn was going 2 sign both before Christmas if you ask me (and I'm a fan of a single owner structure) Penn has some questions over his ability 2 run a club he has 2 get his hands dirty. Love him or hate him Rusty get's the job done Penn I'm not sure so far.

Hahahahahaha you think rusty has anything to do with the running of that club other than some extra brown paper bags

 

[mozgrame]

I do. He absolutely loves the club. He'd be right in the thick of it, when time permits.

 

[Mavin]

Of course he turned Soufs into a powerhouse team in 6 months with no mistakes

You obviously love Penn and that's ok I'm not sold on him. Not just this 6 months he has been involved with the club for longer than 6 months and in my opinion has bought little 2 the table.

 

[ALinda]

At the end of the day the club owners have created this mess. They ****ed up with Hasler, they ****ed up Gift , Choc and now they've ****ed up with DCE & Foz. Unfortunately the Penns are the only ones that are keeping this club alive but the way they are running it who knows for how much longer.

Yes, the Penns have a lot to answer for. When the new ownership came on board, Penn clearly said their number one focus was on re-signing the halves before the start of 2015. Instead of concentrating on pipe dreams and other distractions, they should have kept to their word until missions accomplished weeks ago. Not impressed.

 

[the mauler]

Penn has promised the world a delivered **** all. Very disappointing.

 

[lurker]

Yes, the Penns have a lot to answer for. When the new ownership came on board, Penn clearly said their number one focus was on re-signing the halves before the start of 2015. Instead of concentrating on pipe dreams and other distractions, they should have kept to their word until missions accomplished weeks ago. Not impressed.

Crazy thought and im just playing devils advocate because I don't love the penns but if someone doesn't want to be there what are you meant to do? If it is a playing roster culture that poeple don't like how does the ownership change that? This is a legitimate question im curious as to what you think anyone could have done if they genuinely don't want to be there? And if it is true that they don't like Tooves (I love Tooves but have no idea what he's like as a coach) and the players don't get on with him what are they meant to do as ownership. On the one hand most people on here are saying you can't sack Tooves and if you do there'll be a revolt. But on the other hand people are saying what are management doing they should have made them re-sign. People are individuals I don't think you can blame management on the one hand but say they shouldn't do something which may have fixed the problem. If that is a problem. Someone enlighten me or is there too much logic?

 

[Technical Coach]

The only truth is Parramatta were poor in completions - this area we matched them but it also shows how wrong stats can be as quality beats quantity in most cases.
I have seen many comfortable Manly victories when we lost penalties 2-1 & had 40% of possession & won by 40 points - they were clearly better all day & only poor field position made it competitive in the 1st half where they started sets 3 times in our half & scored 3 tries - pretty damning evidence.
As for your observation in slowing down the play ball area its a new game now. Its slowed down by belting the opposition & earning time from winning the contact as Souths & Parramatta demonstated pretty clearly in both games.
BTW - Dont give up the season off 1 game - its a funny game & by next Saturday night IF Manly get the win - the mood & atmosphere here wil be WAAAY different.

I never stated that completion rates were important or even necessary to win games just saying that is one element of the game Parra did not dominate along with not great attack(more Manly issues in defence not Parra exposing weakness through great attack) and their defence was nothing special.

The slowing down of the play the ball comment is in relation to lacking size, dominance in defence and aggression as the option teams have taken since day one of Rugby League and even given the new rules will still be an "option" but with less ways around the interpretation---- the refs will still allow some latitude.

Manly have always used aggressive defence to slow the play the ball down combined with the second best wrestle in the comp behind Melb which helped elevate Manly and Melb above the pack along with better attacking structures and fitness levels.

Manly added size, increased intensity and aggression which Melb lacked to take our game to a new level along with more offloads and more ball playing in general to fatigue defences and create go forward on the edges.

Last year early in the season everyone was talking about faster play the ball speeds but it was all early season enforcement that was over-hyped,(I argued that the game was not much faster at all) by mid season it was back to normal and Souths abused the hell out of it. I do think this year there will be a more concerted effort to speed it up but I hope not it will lead to a boring game in seasons to come, not so much this year.

Always thought this was going to be a tough season with more points against us, lacking penetration and punch in our go forward and aggression and dominance in defence which has been getting worse each year from 2011.(you could even argue in a small way from 2008 onwards but more so from 2011)

 

[Andrew..]

Crazy thought and im just playing devils advocate because I don't love the penns but if someone doesn't want to be there what are you meant to do? If it is a playing roster culture that poeple don't like how does the ownership change that? This is a legitimate question im curious as to what you think anyone could have done if they genuinely don't want to be there? And if it is true that they don't like Tooves (I love Tooves but have no idea what he's like as a coach) and the players don't get on with him what are they meant to do as ownership. On the one hand most people on here are saying you can't sack Tooves and if you do there'll be a revolt. But on the other hand people are saying what are management doing they should have made them re-sign. People are individuals I don't think you can blame management on the one hand but say they shouldn't do something which may have fixed the problem. If that is a problem. Someone enlighten me or is there too much logic?

There's nothing to enlighten..that's pretty much the reality of the situation.

 

[Technical Coach]

I don't mind the Penns we can only judge what they do over the next 3-5yrs which will lay the platform down for years 5-10.

Obviously we would of loved Kaspersky like EPL instant change and ownership lol but that is wishful thinking.

I think Penn is genuine in wanting to get things rolling whether it happens is a complex matter some of which is beyond his control.

 

[ALinda]

As for moving DCE on immediately, that's well and good for all concerned - if it can be done. And that's a big 'if'.
If not, me thinks dropping him to NSW Cup would be ludicrous. Why have all that cash and a large part of our cap sitting in reggies? May as well get at least 'some' of our money's worth. Otherwise this year will be a write-off (if not already).

 

[lurker]

There's nothing to enlighten..that's pretty much the reality of the situation.

So if people are blaming management whoever that is. How can they fix it? How do you force someone to stay? I think we're throwing mud and seeing what sticks. There's no board squabbling anymore so that's obviously not the problem. I think for whatever reason they just don't want to be here. And that is an unfortunate situation because people jump to the conclusion we should have pandered to their every whim to keep them. Unfortunately as much as I love Tooves if they both leave maybe we do need to face that they don't necessarily want to play for him

 

[highlandeagle]

The guns been loaded Toovs now got to pull the trigger
. 1) Dce to park football unless he's management can organise a swap
. 2) Time to blood Tom and Jake and JLJ
. 3) Hiku to five eight(he is not a winger)
. 4)Burgess to start,Horo to start
. 5)Lawrence to the bench(not match fit)
. 6)While foz is out he can make his mind up.He is either with us or he can join Dce in the park.
. 7) It's time to move on

 

[ALinda]

I think for whatever reason they just don't want to be here. And that is an unfortunate situation because people jump to the conclusion we should have pandered to their every whim to keep them. Unfortunately as much as I love Tooves if they both leave maybe we do need to face that they don't necessarily want to play for him

With Foz, who knows. With DCE, whether he wants to go or not, its all about the $$. He's on the nose with everyone and is walking.
People jumped to the conclusion that management would do whatever to keep them because that's the impression we were given. Looking at it from the outside, it seems Penn didn't do what he implied.

I love Tooves too and can't accept its a reflection on him if they both leave. I don't think Tooves has got anything to do with them going. Just my view.....

 

[Ryan]

Why is it Watmough took a specific shot at Toovey, and last year, Foran had to have the infamous "clearing of the air" meetung with Toovey?

Also, weve lost something like 11 of our last 13 odd games.

with the quality of our roster and depth, that's hideous.

In fact, haven't a FEW players suggested how great Parras coach is compared to ours?

 

[maxta]

Like most here, not happy with those Stats Ryan, but lets look at another stat.
This bloke jumped into the coaching position that was attached with a ticking time bomb with players already in a rabble with backended contracts & internal bickering that was pretty much setup by the 1 you think is the messiah.....Dog Hasler!
Not only did his passion lift the club back from the ashes - he got os into a back to back GF & only a SBW & some ordinary call from another premiership.
Not sure of your culture but I'm not 1 to turn his back on those who have been loyal to a cause that I support & Toovey...he bleeds for this club....I wish him well & give him 100% support till the end - good or bad.

 

[Wombat64]

Penn has promised the world a delivered **** all. Very disappointing.

what happens to Manly without them .......

 

[Loobs]

Why is it Watmough took a specific shot at Toovey, and last year, Foran had to have the infamous "clearing of the air" meetung with Toovey?

Also, weve lost something like 11 of our last 13 odd games.

with the quality of our roster and depth, that's hideous.

In fact, haven't a FEW players suggested how great Parras coach is compared to ours?

Wasn't the clearing of the air meeting about Forans unhappiness at the direction the club was taking? For all the talk about the players being pissed at the board, they would never front them directly if they were. Tooves is the conduit between players and management. They have a beef they take it up with Tooves. Management have a message for players Tooves delivers it. Choc doesn't go into Penn Health in North Sydney demanding a meeting with Rick over his mate Glenn and the handling of his contract. He either tells his manager who takes it up with the higher ups or takes it up with his coach.

I'm sure at your work if you've got a problem to don't go straight to the CEO with it? I know if I did a) I wouldn't be politely laughed out of the place and b) would not want to go over my head of. That's why you have levels of management.

 

[ALinda]

If the Goldy come a knocking and want to do a swap before june 30 this year. Give us Sezer and about $300-$500K for DCE for whats left of the season. Why the hell would we say no?

I need something to cheer about this year, so the return to form of wolfman on the wing is looking like a high point right at the moment.

Heard Henry being quizzed on Triple M about the likelihood of a swap deal and I'd say never say never!

And I'm with you @Cliffy's Is god about Wolfman hopefully back on the wing - a definite high point.

 

[HappilyManly]

As Manly is a privately funded Club by the Penns (apart from the normal NRL Cap etc), would they not consider a million dollar compensation + Sezer swap?

This year's Membership/merchandise revenue is going to be severely affected.
So it would make commercial sense to trade Chez and bank some hard cash