Merged Thread: Noel 'Crusher' Cleal, follows Des Hasler to the Bulldogs

[Andrew..]

No way would I sack Des and allow him to stroll out of the joint with a years pay in his pocket, allowing him to possibly double dip for a an extra years wages at the dogs.
Fair enough if he chooses to walk (extra money to top up players) I think we have to keep cool heads and be savvy in our dealings.

 

[Chip and Chase]

So with cleal gone as well does that mean the current Bulldogs recruitment manager is up for grabs? Maybe we should get him to replace cleal. He has recruited a lot big names for the Dogs, he'd be perfect replacement.

I'm pretty sure he signed with Newcastle a month or so ago. Should have seen the writing on the wall then I suppose.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Nice sentiment Jono but I doubt it is possible to have such a meeting.

Don't forget the players have binding contracts, if the club started tearing them up willy nilly there might be hell to pay, legally speaking.

The situation does call for some leadership however. Unfortunately in recent years a lot of the leadership was probably coming from Mr Hasler. Someone needs to step up.

That's why you give them the offer to sign off on a get-out clause. If they don't sign then that's fine but they won't be given a 2nd chance to walk out of their current contract. It's a way to get loyalty in the squad. If you are loyal to Des you are given a chance to leave with him. If you are loyal to Manly then you don't sign anything and this will be remembered the next time their contract comes up. The player shows their loyalty to the club, the club should return it in kind.

The only ones that would be wise not to sign would be the Stewart Brothers. Their contracts end in 2012 anyways so they wait out their contracts under Toovs then leave in 2013. Everyone else would be a wolf in the ranks until they left so they might as well get out when they can. Too bad no one would be able to afford them.

Lucky for us you are not the CEO, we'd be spending half of next year paying out mega bucks settling court cases we had no chance of winning.

Without claiming to know a lot about contracts, the general idea is that once both parties have signed them they are binding on both. If any players have get-out clauses, the way they work will be determined by the actual clauses in those individual contracts. We can't suddenly change that by giving the players ultimatums now.

Why would any player agree to immediately get out of a current contract when all other clubs have completed their recruitment and have no cap space to sign them?

Also, the idea of players' loyalty being repaid by the club in the next contract is highly dubious. Players know this is business nowadays, if their form is bad or they are chronically injured they won't get re-signed regardless.

Like I said, your strategy is a fine sentiment but that's all it is, an emotional response. It is not founded in common sense or practicality.

 

[DSM5]

God, how many days till the start of next season? Can't come quick enough.

 

[niccipops]

Like I said, your strategy is a fine sentiment but that's all it is, an emotional response. It is not founded in common sense or practicality.

[/quote]I don't think being a rugby league supporter is about common sense or practicality. It's all about emotionally responding.

 

[Berkeley_Eagle]

God, how many days till the start of next season? Can't come quick enough.

115 days

 

[mickqld]

Funny thing is both Des and Crusher have left Manly before and gone to other clubs ( although Des was pretty well booted in his last playing days) and ended up coming back. So they are going to make the same mistake again and will once again realise you can't turn your back on the blood of this club that runs through your veins. The B.S excuse about dysfunctional boards is a joke. They went for dollars, they have been around long enough to know that all football club boards are full of self centered assholes only concerned with their own postions. Footy club boards will shake your hand and smile from the front and then backstab you when they're behind you.

 

[Canteen Worker]

I love that so many posters seem to have mind-reading knowledge of Des and Crusher!!!

Despite what they have said, these people with extraordinary powers, just can second guess them!!

Has anyone thought that Des and Crusher said they are going because they are are sick and tired of the 'crap' floating around the in club because they are sick and tired of the crap floating around in the club.

Bottom line is that none of us really know the full story, but maybe what they are saying is true. Both men have been men of integrity and have bled for the maroon and white.

 

[Brookvale]

it took crusher 4 years to get us premiership players.

will be the same for the dogs, thats unless he has started recruiting for them now.

if thats the case, manly recruitment team (if there is one now) should get a copy of his black book of contacts.

 

[ERNIE FOR NO7]

it took crusher 4 years to get us premiership players.

will be the same for the dogs, thats unless he has started recruiting for them now.

if thats the case, manly recruitment team (if there is one now) should get a copy of his black book of contacts.

The club knows who the official contacts are. At least the ones that re renumerated in some small way.

What will be interesting is how much money Manly pay them and whether they aren't going to receive better offers from the Dogs.

 

[Jono]

Nice sentiment Jono but I doubt it is possible to have such a meeting.

Don't forget the players have binding contracts, if the club started tearing them up willy nilly there might be hell to pay, legally speaking.

The situation does call for some leadership however. Unfortunately in recent years a lot of the leadership was probably coming from Mr Hasler. Someone needs to step up.

That's why you give them the offer to sign off on a get-out clause. If they don't sign then that's fine but they won't be given a 2nd chance to walk out of their current contract. It's a way to get loyalty in the squad. If you are loyal to Des you are given a chance to leave with him. If you are loyal to Manly then you don't sign anything and this will be remembered the next time their contract comes up. The player shows their loyalty to the club, the club should return it in kind.

The only ones that would be wise not to sign would be the Stewart Brothers. Their contracts end in 2012 anyways so they wait out their contracts under Toovs then leave in 2013. Everyone else would be a wolf in the ranks until they left so they might as well get out when they can. Too bad no one would be able to afford them.

Lucky for us you are not the CEO, we'd be spending half of next year paying out mega bucks settling court cases we had no chance of winning.

Without claiming to know a lot about contracts, the general idea is that once both parties have signed them they are binding on both. If any players have get-out clauses, the way they work will be determined by the actual clauses in those individual contracts. We can't suddenly change that by giving the players ultimatums now.

Why would any player agree to immediately get out of a current contract when all other clubs have completed their recruitment and have no cap space to sign them?

Also, the idea of players' loyalty being repaid by the club in the next contract is highly dubious. Players know this is business nowadays, if their form is bad or they are chronically injured they won't get re-signed regardless.

Like I said, your strategy is a fine sentiment but that's all it is, an emotional response. It is not founded in common sense or practicality.

Disagree. A mutual agreement to part ways can end the contract. Them signing a get-out form will mean they waive their rights of the contract. The club would just have to sign it themselves and the players contract is void. Many players have done this. It's something Tim Moltzen's manager should have got before he negotiated with the Dragons, Beau Champion was another, as was Greg Inglis.

Getting out would be up to the player. However, it cuts all these threats of "get-out clauses" and puts the club on the front foot. I agree with you, it'd be stupid but if the players want to leave with Des that is their option and they'd have to hope there is room at the Dogs for them. That's why you'd allow the managers to be at the meeting so that they can give the players the best advice.

It's the ONLY way to stop all of this. Yes, other reasons may force us not to re-sign the player when their contract is up but you'd think if they deserved the raise and had proven their loyalty, then they'd get a little extra for said loyalty.

As I said before, its all about getting on the front foot. At the moment the players hold all the power. They can play badly, they can use get out clauses in their contracts, they can secretly screw this club behind their backs and sign with other clubs while saying everything is fine to us (notice when this has happened before?). It's time they lost that power and the club shows that they are all expendable. If they think we'll lose without them, then sign the waiver and leave the club. Don't sign it? Then back off and play good footy for the club.

 

[ManlyBacker]

You should be running Qantas Jono

 

[Berkeley_Eagle]

I don't get on with them I'll run away Des & Cleal

 

[lsz]

I find it interesting how quickly everyone turns on the two people that re-established our club.

As for Des and Crushers motives I am not privy to their thoughts so anything else is speculation.....but here goes...

The one person who copes the blame when results do not sit is the coach. When we have had bad results how many people on here have raged at the board (pre this drama)

I can only think of when mayer got punted and some heat over Lowe however, when there are bnad results, Des has been the one who has been "blamed"

If I was the coach, the one who copes the blame in the media and from the fans, I would want total control.

The most successful manger in sport, Alex Ferguson, has complete control and it seems to have not lead them astray

But then again that would mean no egos from other parties....

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Nice idea Ryan. But I'm concerned the word 'juncture' might leave a few of our players scratching their heads, we want the message to be clear.

As Earnie rightly points out, Toovey does not have mandate as yet to take such a step. But we don't have a CEO either.

The club has a leadership vacuum at the top. I have no idea how it will end but it better be sooner rather than later, I can't keep watching this forum all summer.

The draw is out for next season mate so pick a home game you would like to go to, where about to reserve the seats and let me know, its my shout.
Time to go, watch the grass grow and not mow it. Cant stay here all summer, only 249 sleeps till season 2012 starts, GO MANLY!!

Your shout? I'm in
I don't get down for all the home games but I'll pm you when I know I'm coming, and cheers to you.
By the way... 249 sleeps? How many times a day do you doze off?

 

[the mauler]

I vividly remember Des in the press conference after the Bulldogs game near the end of the season, what a great performance by the Dogs and what a great club they are.

Couldn't work it out at the time. Sure makes sense now.

 

[bazeagle]

Tell us what you really think

I reckon this entire move by Des, Crusher and other key staff to the Dogs will be a monumental and total failure. The cultural backgrounds and other key differences will not gel. I am convinced of this. Give it one, two seasons at best. At best.

 

[lsz]

RE: Tell us what you really think

They are winners and good at what they do

Will it equal premierships? not 100% sure but the dogs will be in far better shape than they are now

 

[BOZO]

RE: Tell us what you really think

I really think these guys are leaving The beautiful Northern Beaches of Gods country and are moving to Afghanistan .

 

[bob dylan]

RE: Tell us what you really think

Whats wrong with Afghanistan?