Trump

[Uber Eagle 72]

When Albo won the last Australian election by a landslide one of the predominant posters in this thread quite rightly referenced John Howard in saying the Australian People always get it right…..well what about the American People? Don’t they also always get it right? Trump won by a relative landslide as well as gaining a majority in all houses, effectively winning more decisively than even Obama. ( noting Obama did not have majorities in all houses) This says a hell of a lot! What it tells me is that a majority of the American people do not trust main stream media ( CNN, NBC etc) which appears to be feeding a lot of the debate here…..it tells me that the other side must be rotten to the core because Trump himself is certainly no saint by anyone’s yard stick … GOD or whoever atheists look up too help us…. all….

 

[lsz]

I disagree.
For the fact he was ever the Rep. candidate is amazing.

Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That is my point exactly. He operated without any consequences

 

[Brookie1973]

Politics [ in whatever context ] and non footy related general discussion aside , looks like Brookie 1973 "s support and fairly thorough knowledge of all things Manly goes back a long way and i find that a bonus on the site
Don 't claim to be the most perceptive of observers on here but highly doubt Brookie 1973 is a revamped Biff , quite a few subtle differences just from my basic recollection .
Just think that it good and definitely on the interesting side to have a real diverse range of opinions on here, footy related or not and of course as always , ideally on the civil side
Certainly do not have to agree or relate to what is said or even give complete attention to it but good again to have the differing views put out there .

Thanks Manly Al. I am most definitely not Biff, and would have proven it (and made some money for the site in the process) if 47MVEagle had been willing to back up his accusation when challenged. I have long since blocked him.

I agree, a diverse range of views is better than an echo chamber, but I have taken a step back from this thread because some of the recent posts were getting a tad spiteful. PS I enjoy your posts. Cheers.

 

[lsz]

When Albo won the last Australian election by a landslide one of the predominant posters in this thread quite rightly referenced John Howard in saying the Australian People always get it right…..well what about the American People? Don’t they also always get it right? Trump won by a relative landslide as well as gaining a majority in all houses, effectively winning more decisively than even Obama. ( noting Obama did not have majorities in all houses) This says a hell of a lot! What it tells me is that a majority of the American people do not trust main stream media ( CNN, NBC etc) which appears to be feeding a lot of the debate here…..it tells me that the other side must be rotten to the core because Trump himself is certainly no saint by anyone’s yard stick … GOD or whoever atheists look up too help us…. all….

It is important to look at the numbers.

Barack Obama	~22.7% (pop ~306M)	~31.7% (VEP ~219M)
Barack Obama	~20.8% (pop ~316M)	~28.6% (VEP ~231M)
Donald Trump	~19.4% (pop ~324M)	~27.4% (VEP ~230M)
Hillary Clinton	~20.3%	~28.6%
Joe Biden	~24.6% (pop ~331M)	~34.0% (VEP ~239M)
Donald Trump	~22.4%	~31.0%
Donald Trump	~23.1% (pop ~334M)	~31.6% (VEP ~245M)
Joe Biden	~22.5%	~30.6%

[td]

Candidate​

[/td][td]

Election Year​

[/td][td]

Votes (M)​

[/td][td]

% of Votes Cast​

[/td][td]

% of U.S. Population​

[/td][td]

% of Eligible Voters​

[/td]​

[td]

2008​

[/td][td]

69.5​

[/td][td]

52.90%​

[/td]​

[td]

2012​

[/td][td]

65.9​

[/td][td]

51.10%​

[/td]​

[td]

2016​

[/td][td]

62.98​

[/td][td]

46.10%​

[/td]​

[td]

2016​

[/td][td]

65.85​

[/td][td]

48.20%​

[/td]​

[td]

2020​

[/td][td]

81.3​

[/td][td]

51.30%​

[/td]​

[td]

2020​

[/td][td]

74.2​

[/td][td]

46.80%​

[/td]​

[td]

2024​

[/td][td]

77.3​

[/td][td]

49.80%​

[/td]​

[td]

2024​

[/td][td]

75​

[/td][td]

48.30%​

[/td]​

Sure it was an increase in his 2016 numbers but much like the people before him it is not exactly a mandate. Also considering the challenges some people have in voting it is not as simple as saying "well they should just vote"

What Trump did / does is keep his core of supporters and somehow managed to grow it amongst the same communities he is now targeting either through migration (like farmers who rely on cheap labour) or tariffs

 

[Eagle 1]

It is important to look at the numbers.

Barack Obama	~22.7% (pop ~306M)	~31.7% (VEP ~219M)
Barack Obama	~20.8% (pop ~316M)	~28.6% (VEP ~231M)
Donald Trump	~19.4% (pop ~324M)	~27.4% (VEP ~230M)
Hillary Clinton	~20.3%	~28.6%
Joe Biden	~24.6% (pop ~331M)	~34.0% (VEP ~239M)
Donald Trump	~22.4%	~31.0%
Donald Trump	~23.1% (pop ~334M)	~31.6% (VEP ~245M)
Joe Biden	~22.5%	~30.6%

[td]
Candidate​

[/td][td]
Election Year

[/td][td]
Votes (M)

[/td][td]
% of Votes Cast

[/td][td]
% of U.S. Population

[/td][td]
% of Eligible Voters​

[/td]​

[td]
2008

[/td][td]
69.5

[/td][td]
52.90%

[/td]
[td]
2012

[/td][td]
65.9

[/td][td]
51.10%

[/td]
[td]
2016

[/td][td]
62.98

[/td][td]
46.10%

[/td]
[td]
2016

[/td][td]
65.85

[/td][td]
48.20%

[/td]
[td]
2020

[/td][td]
81.3

[/td][td]
51.30%

[/td]
[td]
2020

[/td][td]
74.2

[/td][td]
46.80%

[/td]
[td]
2024

[/td][td]
77.3

[/td][td]
49.80%

[/td]
[td]
2024

[/td][td]
75

[/td][td]
48.30%

[/td]​

Sure it was an increase in his 2016 numbers but much like the people before him it is not exactly a mandate. Also considering the challenges some people have in voting it is not as simple as saying "well they should just vote"

What Trump did / does is keep his core of supporters and somehow managed to grow it amongst the same communities he is now targeting either through migration (like farmers who rely on cheap labour) or tariffs

Think you'll find Iza, the vast majority of immigrants ( legal ones ) who provided cheap labour and settled in the US and became citizens voted for Trump. They could see what was going to happen to their low paid jobs... to go even lower.

 

[Uber Eagle 72]

It is important to look at the numbers.

Barack Obama	~22.7% (pop ~306M)	~31.7% (VEP ~219M)
Barack Obama	~20.8% (pop ~316M)	~28.6% (VEP ~231M)
Donald Trump	~19.4% (pop ~324M)	~27.4% (VEP ~230M)
Hillary Clinton	~20.3%	~28.6%
Joe Biden	~24.6% (pop ~331M)	~34.0% (VEP ~239M)
Donald Trump	~22.4%	~31.0%
Donald Trump	~23.1% (pop ~334M)	~31.6% (VEP ~245M)
Joe Biden	~22.5%	~30.6%

[td]
Candidate


[/td][td]

Election Year



[/td][td]

Votes (M)



[/td][td]

% of Votes Cast



[/td][td]

% of U.S. Population



[/td][td]

% of Eligible Voters

[/td]​

[td]
2008

[/td][td]
69.5

[/td][td]
52.90%

[/td]
[td]
2012

[/td][td]
65.9

[/td][td]
51.10%

[/td]
[td]
2016

[/td][td]
62.98

[/td][td]
46.10%

[/td]
[td]
2016

[/td][td]
65.85

[/td][td]
48.20%

[/td]
[td]
2020

[/td][td]
81.3

[/td][td]
51.30%

[/td]
[td]
2020

[/td][td]
74.2

[/td][td]
46.80%

[/td]
[td]
2024

[/td][td]
77.3

[/td][td]
49.80%

[/td]
[td]
2024

[/td][td]
75

[/td][td]
48.30%

[/td]​

Sure it was an increase in his 2016 numbers but much like the people before him it is not exactly a mandate. Also considering the challenges some people have in voting it is not as simple as saying "well they should just vote"

What Trump did / does is keep his core of supporters and somehow managed to grow it amongst the same communities he is now targeting either through migration (like farmers who rely on cheap labour) or tariffs

All good but the point I am making is that Trump has control of both chambers something I believe Obama did not achieve. It’s the biggest and most effective endorsement a candidate can receive…. trump achieved this with all those court cases and allegations against him, the bulk of the main stream media ( except Fox) completely against him, assignation attempts and with a significantly smaller campaign budget than the democrats who apparently spent close to a $billion. This is an unprecedented victory and imo says more about how bad the Democrats are as opposed to Trumps efforts….

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

This is an unprecedented victory and imo says more about bad the Democrats are than Trumps efforts….

I agree. Even some of Trump's own supporters know he's a dishonest arsehole but still voted for him, says it all about how they've lost faith in the system.

 

[Brookie1973]

 

[lsz]

All good but the point I am making is that Trump has control of both chambers something I believe Obama did not achieve. It’s the biggest and most effective endorsement a candidate can receive…. trump achieved this with all those court cases and allegations against him, the bulk of the main stream media ( except Fox) completely against him, assignation attempts and with a significantly smaller campaign budget than the democrats who apparently spent close to a $billion. This is an unprecedented victory and imo says more about how bad the Democrats are as opposed to Trumps efforts….

He sure did in his first term...just like Biden did.

Years	Party in Control	Also Held Presidency?
2005–2006	Republican	Yes (George W. Bush)
2007–2008	Democrat	No (Bush was President)
2009–2010	Democrat	Yes (Barack Obama)
2017–2018	Republican	Yes (Donald Trump)
2021–2022	Democrat	Yes (Joe Biden)

I think as impressive as Trumps victory was (and I completely acknowledge that it was impressive considering his actions from Jan 6 on) I also think the failure of the democrats in first nominating Biden then the late transfer to special K also had a large impact.

 

[lsz]

Think you'll find Iza, the vast majority of immigrants ( legal ones ) who provided cheap labour and settled in the US and became citizens voted for Trump. They could see what was going to happen to their low paid jobs... to go even lower.

I am not sure that was the motivation but agree re immigrants (even though the dems won the hispanic vote it was closer than before)

In a completely meaningless survey my immigrant relatives who had been democrat voters their whole lives voted for Trump as their view was the borders needed to be closed

 

[lsz]

Honestly you can not expect me to view anything these two put out there....

I mean 58 seconds in and we get the "the left has been trying to shove communism and marxism etc..)

 

[Uber Eagle 72]

He sure did in his first term...just like Biden did.

Years	Party in Control	Also Held Presidency?
2005–2006	Republican	Yes (George W. Bush)
2007–2008	Democrat	No (Bush was President)
2009–2010	Democrat	Yes (Barack Obama)
2017–2018	Republican	Yes (Donald Trump)
2021–2022	Democrat	Yes (Joe Biden)

I think as impressive as Trumps victory was (and I completely acknowledge that it was impressive considering his actions from Jan 6 on) I also think the failure of the democrats in first nominating Biden then the late transfer to special K also had a large impact.

Noted. American politics is certainly messy. Just come across this piece of information claiming that during Obama’s tenure he effectively held both houses for a total of only 4 months during his two terms… but to be honest I always thought he never was in that position. I would say Trump is in a much better position than this…When Obama Had "Total Control of Congress"

 

[manly al]

View attachment 30701That is what i find so strange and even bizarre about the U S political system specifically related to presidential powers to either give or seek immunity from the legal system over many decades now or maybe for ever .

Not only notable in the presidential sense in recent times with Trumpie and Biden but looked like the Clinton era as well .
Serious corruption and even conspiracy assassination allegations with L B J , [ Johnson ] Regan with the Iran - Contra scandals , Nixon with Watergate and other questionable involvements Jack Kennedy with the claimed mafia connections .[ and looks like just crossed them one too many times apart from some elements in the Pentagon ]
And so it goes on .
Just seemed that the so called American constitutional founding fathers apparently tried to put so much emphasis on checks and balances to their governmental format but got totally out of whack and so much more so in recent times

 

[Brookie1973]

Honestly you can not expect me to view anything these two put out there....

I mean 58 seconds in and we get the "the left has been trying to shove communism and marxism etc..)

It does provide an interesting counterpoint to “all conservatives are Nazis”.

 

[manlyfan76]

Not only notable in the presidential sense in recent times with Trumpie and Biden but looked like the Clinton era as well .
Serious corruption and even conspiracy assassination allegations with L B J , [ Johnson ] Regan with the Iran - Contra scandals , Nixon with Watergate and other questionable involvements Jack Kennedy with the claimed mafia connections .[ and looks like just crossed them one too many times apart from some elements in the Pentagon ]
And so it goes on .
Just seemed that the so called American constitutional founding fathers apparently tried to put so much emphasis on checks and balances to their governmental format but got totally out of whack and so much more so in recent times

JFK wanted to take power back from the organisations.

 

[Brookie1973]

JFK wanted to take power back from the organisations.

Yes, there is plenty of material that suggest the reason he was assassinated was because his (and Bobby’s) crackdown on the mafia was seen as a betrayal of the support they provided him to win the presidency, particularly in Illinois.

 

[lsz]

@Brookie1973 a question for you about the whole Epstein situation.

Now that Don Don is out there blaming Obama, Biden, and whoever else he can think of… what do you make of it all?

Do you think:

It was always just a conspiracy theory, a tool to sow distrust in government (the whole “deep state” thing), which worked really well on parts of the MAGA base?
OR

There really is some kind of cover-up going on?

For context, here’s a pretty detailed breakdown from the Washington Post of what Trump and other said pre election (also for further context Trump was in charge when Epstein died...Obama was probably playing golf or riding a jet ski)

To help here is a pretty thorough list from the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/07/08/jeffrey-epstein-bondi-patel-trump/).

June 2, 2024
Fox & Friends co-host Rachel Campos-Duffy: “Would you declassify the Epstein files?”
Donald Trump: “Yeah, yeah, I would. I guess I would. I think that less so, because you don’t know — You don’t want to affect people’s lives if there’s phony stuff in there, because there’s a lot of phony stuff in that whole world.”
Sept. 3, 2024
Trump, to podcast host Lex Fridman: “Yeah, I’d certainly take a look at it. … Yeah, I’d be inclined to the do the Epstein, I’d have no problem with it.”
Oct. 22, 2024
Then-Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) to podcast host Theo Von: “Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list. That is an important thing.”
Jan. 30, 2025
Sen. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tennessee): “So, will you work with me on this issue so we know who worked with Jeffrey Epstein in building these sex trafficking rings?
Kash Patel, FBI director nominee: “Absolutely senator.”
Feb. 21, 2025
Fox News host John Roberts: “[You said recently that] DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein’s clients? Will that really happen?
Attorney General Pam Bondi: “It is sitting on my desk right now, to review.”
Feb. 26, 2025
Fox News host Jesse Watters: “You said you have the Epstein files on your desk.”
Attorney General Pam Bondi: “I do.”
Feb. 27, 2025
Journalist Piers Morgan: “Do you think that by releasing information from these files we are likely to see criminal actions being taken?”
Alina Habba, counsel to the president: “Absolutely. I think it would be negligent for us not to. You have to hold individuals who are indeed rapists, accountable. We have to have them tried, in my opinion.”
Feb. 28, 2025
Podcast host Joe Rogan: “It’s so frustrating to be sitting in this situation where the list isn’t coming out.”
Elon Musk, head of the U.S. DOGE Service: “Well, it better come out, hopefully tomorrow. … I think the public will be rightly frustrated if no one is prosecuted for the Epstein client list, no one at all. At least, the top five or something? Some number, there should at least be an attempt at prosecution of the worst offenders.”
March 1, 2025
Fox News host Mark Levin: “So once all that’s gathered you’re just going to put it out in the public, with the obvious necessary redactions … but for the perpetrators I assume that we’ll see those names, yes?
Bondi: “Well, certainly, nothing can be withheld on that. …”
March 3, 2025
Bondi, to Fox News host Sean Hannity: “A truckload of evidence arrived. It’s now in the possession of the FBI. [FBI Director] Kash [Patel] is going to get me and himself really a detailed report as to why all these documents and evidence had been withheld.”
March 11, 2025
Habba, to media personality Benny Johnson: “I personally have checked in. They are going through it. You have to be patient. Because when you are wanting to prosecute and actually do something with the information that you have, you have to make sure that you save the integrity of the investigation so that we can bring these people to justice, so that we can hold grand juries, so that we can do certain things.”
March 25, 2025
Habba, interim U.S. attorney for New Jersey, to Johnson: “You have to make sure also we bring valid cases … Those people that were crossing state lines and trafficking those girls or having sex with minors will be prosecuted.”
May 28, 2025
Patel to Fox News host Bret Baier: “I’m not going to withhold information from the American public, ever. … We are diligently working on that, and it takes time to go through years of investigations, years of political maneuvering, and years of cover-up.”
June 6, 2025
Rogan: “The narrative has always been that there’s video. Now, where’s the chain of custody? Is there evidence that there’s video? Is there evidence that it was moved around? Stored? Protected from people looking at it?”
Patel: “You’re going to get all that information. Like, that’s literally what we’re putting together. And we’re going to give you every single thing we have and can. And that’s the whole point. … Now we’re figuring out how to put it out.”

 

[Brookie1973]

@Brookie1973 a question for you about the whole Epstein situation.

Now that Don Don is out there blaming Obama, Biden, and whoever else he can think of… what do you make of it all?

Do you think:

It was always just a conspiracy theory, a tool to sow distrust in government (the whole “deep state” thing), which worked really well on parts of the MAGA base?
OR

There really is some kind of cover-up going on?

For context, here’s a pretty detailed breakdown from the Washington Post of what Trump and other said pre election (also for further context Trump was in charge when Epstein died...Obama was probably playing golf or riding a jet ski)

To help here is a pretty thorough list from the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/07/08/jeffrey-epstein-bondi-patel-trump/).

June 2, 2024
Fox & Friends co-host Rachel Campos-Duffy: “Would you declassify the Epstein files?”
Donald Trump: “Yeah, yeah, I would. I guess I would. I think that less so, because you don’t know — You don’t want to affect people’s lives if there’s phony stuff in there, because there’s a lot of phony stuff in that whole world.”
Sept. 3, 2024
Trump, to podcast host Lex Fridman: “Yeah, I’d certainly take a look at it. … Yeah, I’d be inclined to the do the Epstein, I’d have no problem with it.”
Oct. 22, 2024
Then-Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) to podcast host Theo Von: “Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list. That is an important thing.”
Jan. 30, 2025
Sen. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tennessee): “So, will you work with me on this issue so we know who worked with Jeffrey Epstein in building these sex trafficking rings?
Kash Patel, FBI director nominee: “Absolutely senator.”
Feb. 21, 2025
Fox News host John Roberts: “[You said recently that] DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein’s clients? Will that really happen?
Attorney General Pam Bondi: “It is sitting on my desk right now, to review.”
Feb. 26, 2025
Fox News host Jesse Watters: “You said you have the Epstein files on your desk.”
Attorney General Pam Bondi: “I do.”
Feb. 27, 2025
Journalist Piers Morgan: “Do you think that by releasing information from these files we are likely to see criminal actions being taken?”
Alina Habba, counsel to the president: “Absolutely. I think it would be negligent for us not to. You have to hold individuals who are indeed rapists, accountable. We have to have them tried, in my opinion.”
Feb. 28, 2025
Podcast host Joe Rogan: “It’s so frustrating to be sitting in this situation where the list isn’t coming out.”
Elon Musk, head of the U.S. DOGE Service: “Well, it better come out, hopefully tomorrow. … I think the public will be rightly frustrated if no one is prosecuted for the Epstein client list, no one at all. At least, the top five or something? Some number, there should at least be an attempt at prosecution of the worst offenders.”
March 1, 2025
Fox News host Mark Levin: “So once all that’s gathered you’re just going to put it out in the public, with the obvious necessary redactions … but for the perpetrators I assume that we’ll see those names, yes?
Bondi: “Well, certainly, nothing can be withheld on that. …”
March 3, 2025
Bondi, to Fox News host Sean Hannity: “A truckload of evidence arrived. It’s now in the possession of the FBI. [FBI Director] Kash [Patel] is going to get me and himself really a detailed report as to why all these documents and evidence had been withheld.”
March 11, 2025
Habba, to media personality Benny Johnson: “I personally have checked in. They are going through it. You have to be patient. Because when you are wanting to prosecute and actually do something with the information that you have, you have to make sure that you save the integrity of the investigation so that we can bring these people to justice, so that we can hold grand juries, so that we can do certain things.”
March 25, 2025
Habba, interim U.S. attorney for New Jersey, to Johnson: “You have to make sure also we bring valid cases … Those people that were crossing state lines and trafficking those girls or having sex with minors will be prosecuted.”
May 28, 2025
Patel to Fox News host Bret Baier: “I’m not going to withhold information from the American public, ever. … We are diligently working on that, and it takes time to go through years of investigations, years of political maneuvering, and years of cover-up.”
June 6, 2025
Rogan: “The narrative has always been that there’s video. Now, where’s the chain of custody? Is there evidence that there’s video? Is there evidence that it was moved around? Stored? Protected from people looking at it?”
Patel: “You’re going to get all that information. Like, that’s literally what we’re putting together. And we’re going to give you every single thing we have and can. And that’s the whole point. … Now we’re figuring out how to put it out.”

Thanks. I provided my view in post #644.

 

[Brookie1973]

 

[lsz]

Thanks. I provided my view in post #644.

This one?

I suspect whatever transpired here has serious ramifications for people on both sides of politics, which is why neither side has come clean, and probably never will.

That does not answer my question and instead, in what seems to be a pattern, talks about "both sides".

I tell you what. Post the same amount of information re democrats talking about the exact situation similar to the above and I am happy to read through it.