Andrew Webster article

[Shoe1]

Lol. What a thread. Certainly learnt more about my fellow silvertails in this thread than I have in 5+ years of reading dribble about rugby league.

Agreed. I have new respect for some members, and less for some others.

 

[bones]

Let's say that if every male today was put on one side of the world and every female on the other with no access to each other even say that we didn't know the other side existed whether each person was gay or straight how long would you say Human life would last for 80/90 years ???

Or how about if everyone stayed where they are now and less than 10% of the population were homosexual... Imagaine that. How on earth would human life continue ?

The point is bones

That man & woman are the core of human life reproduction !!!! We are here today because of this reason.
If it all started with man & man or woman & woman would you be here today.

No matter how hard you try to compromise a fact to suit individuals

The proof is in the pudding

It's quite ironic how you, as someone who believes in god, can use 'proof' and 'facts' in your argument when it suits hey?

 

[panash]

Let's say that if every male today was put on one side of the world and every female on the other with no access to each other even say that we didn't know the other side existed whether each person was gay or straight how long would you say Human life would last for 80/90 years ???

Or how about if everyone stayed where they are now and less than 10% of the population were homosexual... Imagaine that. How on earth would human life continue ?

The point is bones

That man & woman are the core of human life reproduction !!!! We are here today because of this reason.
If it all started with man & man or woman & woman would you be here today.

No matter how hard you try to compromise a fact to suit individuals

The proof is in the pudding

It's quite ironic how you, as someone who believes in god, can use 'proof' and 'facts' in your argument when it suits hey?

Bones maybe you know something I don't.
Please educate me

Can a male & male reproduce human life and pass down a new generation ??

If so please explain how ??

Provide PROOF & FACTS

I also mentioned previously that believing in god is more faith than proof , and that is a decision made by each individual

 

[Napper]

Faith means not wanting to know what is true.

 

[bones]

Let's say that if every male today was put on one side of the world and every female on the other with no access to each other even say that we didn't know the other side existed whether each person was gay or straight how long would you say Human life would last for 80/90 years ???

Or how about if everyone stayed where they are now and less than 10% of the population were homosexual... Imagaine that. How on earth would human life continue ?

The point is bones

That man & woman are the core of human life reproduction !!!! We are here today because of this reason.
If it all started with man & man or woman & woman would you be here today.

No matter how hard you try to compromise a fact to suit individuals

The proof is in the pudding

It's quite ironic how you, as someone who believes in god, can use 'proof' and 'facts' in your argument when it suits hey?

Bones maybe you know something I don't.
Please educate me

Can a male & male reproduce human life and pass down a new generation ??

If so please explain how ??

Provide PROOF & FACTS

I also mentioned previously that believing in god is more faith than proof , and that is a decision made by an individual

Who cares if they can't reproduce. What business is it of yours or anybody else's? Do you also think that men who are born sterile, or women who are infertile should not be allowed to marry as they won't be able to reproduce? What about a man and a woman who meet in their elderly years and fall in love? They're not going to reproduce. Should they be stopped from marrying if they love each other and wish to do so?

 

[panash]

Faith means not wanting to know what is true.

Also believing and not seeing

---

Or how about if everyone stayed where they are now and less than 10% of the population were homosexual... Imagaine that. How on earth would human life continue ?

The point is bones

That man & woman are the core of human life reproduction !!!! We are here today because of this reason.
If it all started with man & man or woman & woman would you be here today.

No matter how hard you try to compromise a fact to suit individuals

The proof is in the pudding

It's quite ironic how you, as someone who believes in god, can use 'proof' and 'facts' in your argument when it suits hey?

Bones maybe you know something I don't.
Please educate me

Can a male & male reproduce human life and pass down a new generation ??

If so please explain how ??

Provide PROOF & FACTS

I also mentioned previously that believing in god is more faith than proof , and that is a decision made by an individual

Who cares if they can't reproduce. What business is it of yours or anybody else's? Do you also think that men who are born sterile, or women who are infertile should not be allowed to marry as they won't be able to reproduce? What about a man and a woman who meet in their elderly years and fall in love? They're not going to reproduce. Should they be stopped from marrying if they love each other and wish to do so?

Different argument !!

I mentioned before , what I feel marriage is to me and why. Once again my opinion.

I don't care if the gay community want to " so called get married " wouldn't bother me at all.

However I believe that marriage belongs to a man & woman as it has been for hundreds of years.

 

[Stevo]

Let's say that if every male today was put on one side of the world and every female on the other with no access to each other even say that we didn't know the other side existed whether each person was gay or straight how long would you say Human life would last for 80/90 years ???

Or how about if everyone stayed where they are now and less than 10% of the population were homosexual... Imagaine that. How on earth would human life continue ?

The point is bones

That man & woman are the core of human life reproduction !!!! We are here today because of this reason.
If it all started with man & man or woman & woman would you be here today.

No matter how hard you try to compromise a fact to suit individuals

The proof is in the pudding

Don't you watch Game of Thrones? Poofs ahve been around since the dark ages! True Story!

 

[Kager]

Faith means not wanting to know what is true.

No, real Faith looks at all the alternatives and realises that neither side can prove for or against God with out taking a conscious decision to add their conclusion past where the evidence finishes. I for one know what I believe and know that it takes more faith to believe there is no God than to acknowledge what I see and have experienced and conclude he is there and someone I have to deal with at one point.

Faith is not blind it fills in the gap to believe one way or the other... Napper you believe there is no God and have Faith that you are right, the gap between the evidence you have and an answer requires it.

 

[Stevo]

Maybe he just doesn't believe in god and doesn't care if he's right or wrong.

 

[Kager]

Maybe he just doesn't believe in god and doesn't care if he's right or wrong.

Well yes that would require no faith.

 

[bones]

Different argument !!

I mentioned before , what I feel marriage is to me and why. Once again my opinion.

I don't care if the gay community want to " so called get married " wouldn't bother me at all.

However I believe that marriage belongs to a man & woman as it has been for hundreds of years.

No, It was you who raised the point about gays not being able to reproduce. So why is it a "different argument" when I simply continued the debate in regards to the inability to reproduce? Just because you had no answer to my question, does not make it a different argument.

 

[Napper]

Faith means not wanting to know what is true.

Napper you believe there is no God and have Faith that you are right, the gap between the evidence you have and an answer requires it.

No I don't. I know I'm right. I believe what I see. I don't have faith in anything. I live in the now what happens in five minutes will happen. I work on a construction site. If a crane falls and kills me in the next 5 minutes then I'll believe it. I don't have faith that it won't happen because it is reality. I live my life based on reality not falsified stories.

 

[Darren]

Bones to lead the Manly Warringah Mardi Gras Understanding float with a few others on here next year. We can make them, "Boney and Cammy and Nipper all the way. Get those stilletos out. Maybe a Corso preview as well.
:dodgy:

 

[bones]

Bones to lead the Manly Warringah Mardi Gras Understanding float with a few others on here next year. We can make them, "Boney and Cammy and Nipper all the way. Get those stilletos out. Maybe a Corso preview as well.
:dodgy:

Edit - Offensive language. You can do better than resorting to that sort of response Bones.

 

[CAMBO]

Bones to lead the Manly Warringah Mardi Gras Understanding float with a few others on here next year. We can make them, "Boney and Cammy and Nipper all the way. Get those stilletos out. Maybe a Corso preview as well.
:dodgy:

You know what Darren I'm more than comfortable with my hetrosexuality to do that if it meant one gay teenager would grow up not hating him of herself for something they had no choice over.

You just proved to everyone here once and for all what a horrible person you really are. If there really was a god hateful bigots like you wouldn't exist.

 

[Kager]

Faith means not wanting to know what is true.

Napper you believe there is no God and have Faith that you are right, the gap between the evidence you have and an answer requires it.

No I don't. I know I'm right. I believe what I see. I don't have faith in anything. I live in the now what happens in five minutes will happen. I work on a construction site. If a crane falls and kills me in the next 5 minutes then I'll believe it. I don't have faith that it won't happen because it is reality. I live my life based on reality not falsified stories.

Fair enough that you believe in the now but that doesn't effect one way or the other whether there is a God, we all have to live in current realities but then we also have to decide what we think happens after that crane falls.... thats where whichever belief you adhere to will require some faith, you seem to have chosen and so have I but not blindly.

 

[Napper]

Bones to lead the Manly Warringah Mardi Gras Understanding float with a few others on here next year. We can make them, "Boney and Cammy and Nipper all the way. Get those stilletos out. Maybe a Corso preview as well.
:dodgy:

Maybe if you took Jesus' pretend dick out of your mouth you'd make more sense.

 

[Darren]

Boys, you crack me up. Cam, my best mate's brother is gay and been a friend since day one. You guys have huge shots and gutter language at Christianity yet that's not bigoted?

 

[Napper]

Boys, you crack me up. Cam, my best mate's brother is gay and been a friend since day one. You guys have huge shots and gutter language at Christianity yet that's not bigoted?

How do you know he is Gay? [Edit - offensive language]

Up until your last two posts Napper you had been doing a pretty good job of impersonating someone willing to engage in an intelligent debate. Don't ruin it by resorting to name calling and foul language - C&C

 

[Bearfax]

Its easy to blame Stig for an attitude that has prevailed in our community for thousands of years. When you are conditioned to believe something when you're a child and when its reinforced by those you associate with, its difficult to see outside of the boundaries of that attitude. I'm 62 and I recall when I was younger, that homosexuality was an 'evil'. Certainly it was reinforced by the community and churches of that time. Its only when you become exposed to other values and see the world through different eyes that you begin to question the very values you hold to be sacrosanct.

When I was younger I believed homosexuality was unnatural and against God's will. I had the same attitude to abortion, euthanasia, suicide, unionism, other religions, even Catholicism. Laugh if you like but that was the world I was raised in in the 1950s and 1960s. Indigenous Australians were still seen as lesser people; didnt even have the vote. Suspicion was held regarding the Italians and Greeks because they stuck together and took jobs (sound familiar).

So entrenched were some of those attitudes that many were, and still are, bound in the legal system. I was a Probation and Parole officer for over 30 years and in those early years I actually had some clients on probation because they had been involved in homosexual activities.

Today I recognise homosexuality as just part of human behaviour; even animals participate in such acts. I'm heterosexual myself, but that's through choice, and I believe such choices should remain between consenting adults. I also now agree with abortion, euthanasia; I consider suicide not a crime but a personal expression of despair, sometimes even because of an inherent depressive condition. Its a medical/psychological issue. Indigenous Australians, Italians, Greeks, Catholics and people of other beliefs are no different from anyone else (though I'm still unsure about Queenslanders). And I was a former union official.

The answer so often comes from meeting people of different beliefs, cultures and values and getting to realise that fundamentally they are no different. Unfortunately though we always have a tendency to demonise others who we dont know well and dont understand and may even present an apparent threat to us. Look to the Jewish people as an example through history of that demonising.

Stig is caught obviously in a conditioned attitude that he has never questioned or truly examined. Educate him, dont crucify him

"I'm heterosexual myself, but that's through choice," is sexuality defined by ones acts or thoughts as i doubt any person chooses being Gay or Straight.

It is way too complex a topic for mankind to judge people on, in the end it is not for me to judge but someone up above.

So basically if Gays and Lesbians want marriage equality they can have it and i wont stand in their way i just wont accept or define such relationships as being part of a marriage from a personal point of view.

Laws should treat people as equals regardless of what sex, sexuality or if you were born with any defective gene(which in my definition includes gay and lesbian sexual orientation)

Your point is well taken.

The use of the word 'choice' refers to preference not to a conscious decision so I should have been more careful with colloquial English.

Yes laws should treat people equally and hopefully we are as a society getting better at that though we have a long way to go. In my job I saw many 'crimes' that should not be considered such. One is the use of illicit drugs. I'm am not here condoning the use of said substances, merely pointing out that often drug use starts when a person is in their early teens and when the user is not yet aware enough of the dangers associated with such black market substances. The problem again is medical/psychological and the law should recognise the difference. To supply for profit though is a crime.

I already mentioned abortion and euthanasia. Both should be personal decisions. I certainly dont want to linger in infirmity if I know I'm dying. Would prefer to do it with a certain amount of control, and not be charged with a crime if I fail.

But society is struggling with values that are millennia in the making and fundamental to our religions and accepted societal norms. They often are establsihed through quite valid reasons in the past but so many are no longer relevant in our world. And again ignorance needs to be educated not heavily penalised. Penalising an attitude rarely changes it and in fact often causes it to be more entrenched. Education causes people to face and question the fundamentals of their beliefs. Of course some people are too conditioned to their beliefs even when all the evidence demonstrates otherwise.

"Education causes people to face and question the fundamentals of their beliefs."---seems to imply that if your belief systems are Bible based they are of lesser value than a modern day educated belief base. In my case i feel education reinforces my beliefs and i question them less after seeing the results of mankind making their own decisions.( i do see your point if your comment is merely about questioning whether you are just being brainwashed and education can set you free)

Mankind more often than not takes the easiest route in every facet of life that is why the future is written.

Firstly I appreciate your position regarding your faith and in my mind a personal belief is nobody's business but their own, unless that belief interferes with the rights and freedoms of others. A faith can be highly beneficial and offer a strong foundation in a persons life. I was in fact training to be a Methodist minister when I was younger. My brother in law is a Baptist minister and good friend. My personal beliefs though changed and I would be now considered agnostic. But each person has to travel their own path in life, and contrary to what those with more extreme beliefs may hold, I dont believe there is one RIGHT WAY, I honestly question everything these days and try to be as honest with myself as I feel I possibly can. But I know another will travel in the same manner and reach different conclusions in life. That's the human condition. There are no 'yellow brick' roads we will all follow together

But in responding to your concerns about the Bible, I would suggest that like society in general, we and our beliefs all change over time. Religion is not set in stone. It adapts over time like everything else and what is considered truth in one age is not necessarily so in another age. Religions main aim is to maintain societal stability and values that offer us security and camaraderie. There are fundamentals to this such as not killing, stealing, avarice, respect of other's rights etc which are basics to most religions. That doesnt mean that there arent faults to be found in those systems, and I believe one of these relates to the attitudes to homosexuality. It also applies to euthanasia and abortion etc. Of course that's a personal opinion and like all things not sacrosanct. Surely though what is most important in all society is to respect the rights of others and their way of living as long as it does not interfere with the rights and freedoms of others. As they say vive la difference because thats what makes us all interesting to get to know.